Peter Waller has managed to completely do my head in with a DVD he sent - Bob Roberts Still Water Waggler to be precise.

I have always used floats to .. well, float my rig. This DVD shows an obvious expert using waggler thingys as bite indicators with his bait on the bottom.

Do you folks ever use floats to ... well, float a rig so it is in mid water or something?

As a side note, my wife watched the DVD and has gone from agreeing to a UK visit to mostly humor me to now being excited about trying new angling methods on fish we've both never seen so Peter, thank you very much. It more than made up for your confusing me.

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Newt ,hi for a basic article and some info on wagglers you could read this site
wagglers] or this page that masterline kindly let me host
Float Fishing By John Wilson

please take a look around the site as there maybe other articles and info that might of interest to you.

I've never quite got my head around the idea of using wagglers on fast-moving water.
Doesn't the float constantly dip under if you try to mend your line, or you hold back, or....
Where and why would a waggler score over a stick float on a river?

cheers

Newt,waggler is a generic term for several types of float which are attached bottom only.We use floats to fish in many different ways at many depths.Two of the clasic ways the march angler (like the type of fishing Nob Roberts is showing in the vidio)are to fish it slightly over depth like he is.This causes the tackle to drag along the bottom when used in a river thus slowing it down automaticly.The other most common way is to fish it around half depth with the bulk of the shot directly under the float.This allows the bait to be fished with a slow sinking action called "on the drop" which is inevitabley when the fish take!

Both methods of using the waggler are also used in stillwaters but the advantage here is being fixed bottom only you can sink the line beneath the surface avoiding the float (and therefore the bait) being dragged along unaturally by any wind.

I really hope that you have time to come and do a bit of classic style English float fishing when you come over.You wont see anything new if you go out lure fishing as we are copying you!wont learn loads carping but coarse fishing sums up our angling.

Glen if my post to Newt doesnt make it a bit clearer please say and I will post in a bit more detail about the advantages a waggler gives you in running water and how to use /set up etc.

chavender - thanks for the links and I'll take a good look when I get to work later this afternoon. Always have some spare time during a shift.

Budgie - helpful stuff as always. I dunno about GlennB but I'd love more river-waggler detail myself. The usual lakes I fish can go from still waters to 'rivers' with 2-3 mph current in a hurry and it would be nice to have a backup plan for that other than raising the anchor and headed to more sheltered areas.

This past Sunday we had heavy rain forcast for later in the week and they were pulling down the big lake, High Rock, so it could easily take the extra water so all afternoon there were still water periods and sudden bursts of current as they lowered the upper lake a bit more - usually about 30-45 minutes of the current and back to still for about the same period. I was wishing for something suitable rigged and ready.

Re: the UK trip - we both do certainly plan to do some classic english float fishing. Looking forward to it in fact. I will be doing some lure sessions but mainly because I have never seen a pike and would love to catch one or two or three. I'll also enjoy giving a go at several lure tactics I've suggested on here and been firmly told they can't possibly work on UK pike.

[ 09. March 2005, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: Newt ]

Thanks for the offer Budgie, and I'd like to take it up

Problem I have is visualising what's going on. My ageing brain sees a waggler dragging the terminal tackle along the bottom and inevitably getting dragged under and looking like false bites. And if you tighten up to loosen the hook/bait I'd imagine that would drag the float down too.

But people clearly do it, so it must work. Any advice appreciated.

Right for Newt and Glen.

As you both know the water in a river normally moves slower (due to friction) on the bottom than it does on the surface. A float (of any design) allowed to travel freely down stream would obviously be travelling at the speed of the surface water. This would in turn be dragging the bait (fished on the bottom) along a lot faster than the water near the bottom. Therefore looking unnatural. Anglers fishing with fine tackle always try to present a bait as naturally as possible (yes before anyone says I know that some times fish will take the bait and even sometimes prefer it that little bit faster!) and in most cases for natural read the same speed as other food travelling along the bottom.

Two ways of achieving this.

With a float attached both top and bottom such as a stick float or an Avon float. The passage of the float downstream can be slowed by paying out the line from the reel slower than the current speed. This “holds the float back” therefore slowing it down. It must be remembered that the current pushing on the tackle will lift it in the water so you will need to set the distance between bait and float deeper than the actual depth of the water (the exact amount depends on the current speed/amount of shot/how hard you are holding back) to keep the bait near the bottom. A floating line is a must for this type of presentation allowing for better float control (i.e. mending the line) and for a clean strike. As the bait also travels in front of the rest of the tackle this method gives the best presentation possible. It has one draw back though and that is that the further out from the rod tip you fish the harder it is to control the tackle and hold the float back smoothly. Also a strong downstream wind makes it a lot harder to control the speed.

For fishing further out the Waggler then takes over. To achieve the same slowed down presentation the Waggler is fished over depth with a small shot dragging along the bottom. It is this dragging shot that slows every thing down to the correct speed. Most of the shot is still placed under the float and careful adjustment of depth by trial and error causes the float to go downstream at the slower speed but not continually pull under. Unlike the top and bottom float the Waggler travels downstream float first, dragging the hook behind. As it goes down stream (once correctly adjusted) its tip will “waggle” from side to side. Henceforth the name. Not as some say because of the way it hangs from the line. Again unlike the top and bottom floats it is best fished with a sunken line. When you cast, cast slightly down stream and sink the line immediately. This will ensure that the tackle stays with the line behind the float. A bow can be put into it, which will allow a certain degree of mending without pulling the float under or of course.

Well it’s a bit hard to explain clearly without diagrams and Ive simplified it as much as possible but hope this helps. Anything Ive not made clear please say and I will try again!

Sorry that you are confused Newt! Had rather hoped that you & Jan would master the art before coming to England. Surely the US has small fish that would respond well to a waggler?

Ah!
Picturing the "further out" and the "waggle" of the float, it begins to make sense. You can't hold back the stick float "further out" as the angles are all wrong? So to keep close to the bottom ... Think I see. For some reason this reminds me of stret-pegging but I could be wildly wrong.

Only remains to try it. Could have to wait till June I'm afraid

Thanks Budgie !