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Jan 27 2005, 03:30 PM
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#1
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![]() Administrator ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 801 Joined: 1-March 02 From: Leek, Staffordshire Member No.: 1,734 |
My mate works for a small manufacturing company and pretty much runs the place as far as the machines go. They stiffed him a year or two back when they moved him from hourly paid and put him on salary (he was the only one who could set up the machines as so was clocking up too many hours for their liking) and ended up out of pocket.
Despite asking, he’s still got no contract and they have now turned round and given him three months notice to move onto shifts, with no increase in money it would appear – just after advice on how he stands? Do they have to pay shift allowance or offer an increase in basic? Also, if they are supposed to offer more, will the fact he has not got a contract mean they can have him over again? He’s been there for four or five years. The main problem is that despite the constant training he’s given, none of the other workers can set up the machines properly. This is in the most part due to the fact that the employers hire numpties on minimum rates who have absolutely no idea about engineering and machine changeovers and set ups. The result is that my mate usually has to be in at least two hours before the day starts to get all the lines ready, and often has to stay over at the end to do line changeovers. With shifts, the problem will become worse - Because he’s the only one who can do the lines, he’s going to have to be there at say 4am, to prep the lines for 6am. Then at 2pm when he should be off home, he’s going to have to stay over because nobody on the second shift knows what they are doing. One problem could be that they forced him into the same shift pattern last summer (The upshot was that he was regularly doing 18hr days and ended up suffering from exhaustion and stress – not good) so would this mean that he’s already accepted the change as he’s done it before, or, as the company has to give written notice each time they move to shifts, would this be a ‘new situation’? At the end of the day, he is *very* good at what he does, but I don’t think the threat of leaving would do much as his boss is a real stubborn one and not really up for ‘talking things through’. In fact, they did not even talk to the lads about going onto shifts – they just left a note on the canteen table! Thanks in advance for any input. -------------------- Mild Mannered Carp Angler By Day…
Read My Blog:Here! View My Gallery: Here! www.NorthWestcarp.co.uk Home of the Northern Monkey! |
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Jan 27 2005, 03:30 PM
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Jan 27 2005, 04:16 PM
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#2
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![]() Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,714 Joined: 20-May 02 From: West Dorset Member No.: 2,108 |
I don't think he can be asked to work more than 48 hrs a week, but I expect he has opted out of that if he has been doing sh1t-loads of overtime allready.
Our shifts are: 6am till 2pm with a 5% unsocial hours allowance. 2pm till 10pm with a 10% unsocial hours allowance. 10pm till 6am with a 30% unsocial hours allowance. Sandtiger is a lawyer. He might be able to help, otherwise go to the Citizens' Advice people. -------------------- Gabriel Finance Ltd. Small business funding. John Gale 01823 601577
Pisces mortui solum cum flumine natant You get more bites on Anglers Net |
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Jan 27 2005, 05:03 PM
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#3
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![]() Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,487 Joined: 10-December 03 From: Hertfordshire Member No.: 4,438 |
Legally they have to give him a written contract. He should write to them pointing this out. A solicitor or the CAB ought to be able to help.
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Jan 27 2005, 06:12 PM
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#4
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![]() Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Anglers' Net Contributor Posts: 3,281 Joined: 20-November 00 From: West Berks. Member No.: 459 |
Try ringing ACAS - 08457 474747
C. -------------------- "Study to be quiet." My Blog
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Jan 27 2005, 09:21 PM
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#5
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![]() Administrator ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 801 Joined: 1-March 02 From: Leek, Staffordshire Member No.: 1,734 |
Thanks for the replies. I just spoke to ACAS, but to be honest, not much help.
They say that although there is no ‘official’ contract, there is a ‘a’ contract, which would be made up from his current working customs and practices. Having served notice to go on shifts, the employer is effectively serving notice to change that contract, and in layman’s terms they said it is then his choice to accept it or leave!! Furthermore, on the hours, they said that unless he had personally opted to work more than 48 hours a week (which he has not) then 48 was as much as they could make him work. However, they explained that the 48 hour rule is an average over a 17 week period. So technically they could make him work 60+ a week for several weeks before the average figure meant he could limit his hours. I also enquired about the way they often hassle him at home on how to run the machines when he’s supposed to be ‘off’. They say that if there is no contract in place, then again it reverts to current custom and practice; I asked if that meant that because they kept ringing him at home last time when they ran shifts, that they would be entitled to do the same thing again this time - They said it did! The only good thing was that officially the three month notice period is supposed to be a ‘consultation’ period rather than just a lead in, so I reckon I’ll help him put a letter together voicing his concerns about working conditions. Cheers… Julian -------------------- Mild Mannered Carp Angler By Day…
Read My Blog:Here! View My Gallery: Here! www.NorthWestcarp.co.uk Home of the Northern Monkey! |
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Jan 27 2005, 09:56 PM
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#6
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![]() Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 19-November 04 From: Kent Member No.: 5,775 |
Julian
It may well be worth contacting the Citizens Advice Bureau. If your friend has an implied contract then these changes might constitute constructive dismissal. If that were the case he would have some more leverage. http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index.htm |
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Jan 27 2005, 10:21 PM
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#7
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![]() Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 995 Joined: 17-November 04 Member No.: 5,768 |
Julian
Get him to join a Union ASAP, if this gets nasty then at least he won`t have to fork out 33% of any winning claim to the bloodsuckers -------------------- |
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Jan 27 2005, 10:51 PM
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#8
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![]() Administrator ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 801 Joined: 1-March 02 From: Leek, Staffordshire Member No.: 1,734 |
Thanks all, will pass the info on.
Cheers... Julian -------------------- Mild Mannered Carp Angler By Day…
Read My Blog:Here! View My Gallery: Here! www.NorthWestcarp.co.uk Home of the Northern Monkey! |
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Jan 27 2005, 11:20 PM
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#9
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 222 Joined: 27-April 01 Member No.: 880 |
IMHO - His best route is to document all the areas of concern and take them to the management. Presented properly this could be a very constructive report as it will highlight to the company their areas of weakness, ie how would they deal with it if the chap had an accident and was unable to work for a while? Address the problem areas with a positve attitude and it might get him a lot further than just being highly critical of their working practices and the lack of contract. The objective is to get what you want without antagonising and alienating the people above him, drastically shortens the length of the career prospects!
If this doesn't work then the constructive dismissal path may be another option to look at. On another tack, what about the Health & Safety aspect, I think they'll find that they need at least two competent people who are able to carry out the work you mention. H&S is a big issue these days, and assuming they have a board of directors, one of those is, by law, responsible for this apsect of the company. If H&S laws are proved to be being broken, then the director responsible could end up in prison. A thought.....what do they do when he is on holiday? HTH, Paul |
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Jan 28 2005, 02:31 AM
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#10
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![]() Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 554 Joined: 16-April 04 Member No.: 4,862 |
If he is the only one that can set up the machines that should give him a bit of leverage with trying to sort out a contract.
When we were pushed into a contract that we didn't want we were advised by the Union to put in a written statement saying we did not accept the new terms and conditions but were willing to give them a trial period. This apparently gives you a get out if you don't like the new working arrangments. We were also led to believe that if we didn't accept the new t & c we would be entitled to redundancy as our old contracts were being terminated. I don't know how true this is as the management changed their minds once the entire workforce had done this. I think by law you have to have a written contract stating working hours, wage, holidays etc and your employer has to give you one If he can get hold of a copy of the working time directive (I think) it should all be in there. ACAS don't really help an awful lot in these situations, they are more of a mediator in my experience. -------------------- Mark
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