A question for the predator specialists:

How often do you change your deadbait if you aren't getting a bite?

Can it depend on what bait you're using, what species you're targeting and whether you are fishing a still water or running water?

Got to admit I don't know myself, so thought i'd benefit from the experience of you pedator guys.

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If I'm not getting a bite I move!

I agree with Peter but if all your baits are fresh and you're fishing the only little slack or backwater in an otherwise flooded winter river, it's probably more important to have a range of baits that constantly renewing the one you have on the hook. Stick out a couple of rods, one with a sardine, one with a roach etc until you twig what's working.

One of the important things to do is to try to ensure that your baits are in the right place to begin with. This is where plumbing the area really pays off. Additionally, if I don't hit the right spot I immediately recast until I do.

Of course there's a lot more to it than that. How often I move deadbaits partly depends on the mood of the fish. If I reckon the fish are dour and therefore relatively static I'll move my baits a yard or so every few minutes in an attempt to get the bait right in front of the pike. If they're moving around I feel that they're more likely to find the deadbait and so I wouldn't move it so often.

I agree with Ken that the swim also plays a part as well. For instance, if you're putting a bait near to an area where the pike are holed up tightly you won't want to move it so frequently.

However, it's amazing how often a bait recast to exactly the same spot gets taken almost immediately, even though it may have lain there before for quite a time!

It's therefore rare that I'm sitting behing static deadbaits waiting for runs. If nothing's happening I try to make it happen. My view is that I've got little to lose in this situation by twitching the bait or recasting.

Talking of twitching the bait reminds me of a tip I've posted here before. You don't have to twitch your bait towards you. With the right rig you can change its depth too.

To do so I use a sunken float paternoster similar to the rig in my perch article at http://anglers-net.co.uk/authors/steve01.htm The only difference is that I add an uptrace when piking to avoid bite offs and use a John Roberts low resistance leger ring so that the swivel on the uptrace can run through it.

By tightening or slackening the tension on this rig I can get the bait to go lower or higher in the water respectively. Not only does this explore various depths (which can make a huge difference some days), but it also gives the bait some movement.

And yes, deadbaits suspended in midwater do catch a hell of a lot of pike! Neither does it matter if the baits are hanging down rather than sitting horizontally!

[ 30. August 2005, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: Steve Burke ]

Some baits will stand upto repeated all-day soakings and re-freezing. Brown Trout, Lamprey and Eel will catch Pike in almost any state, especially Brown Trout. I'll use these 3 baits fresh, rotten, frozen...whatever.
In general, sea-deads can be left to soak all day but it's not a good idea to take them home for re-freezing. I'm happy to recast them all day as long as they retain thier integrity. Ifthey start falling apart, it's time to change.
Roach, Perch, Skimmers etc. can only take a soaking for a couple of hours before they start to pale and go soft. I might change these 4-5 times in a session to maintain thier freshness.

With me it depends on whether I'm fishing still or moving water.
If I'm on still water or on one of the Scottish lochs I will leave my baits in the water for a minimum of an hour possibly longer depending on the bait. Roach as mentioned washes out and to my mind a fresh roach will always outfish a washed out one but pike will still take a roach bait if its been in the water all day. Sometimes old rank bait fishs well. I leave baits in still water longer unless on fish as I believe pike have a patrolling route and sooner or later they will be back as they often follow the silver fish in the water. Baits like mackeral,sardine and lamprey can be left much much longer than course deads as their high oil levels and blood keep on leaching out and working for far longer.
On the rivers it depends on whether its a new venue or if its a place that i know to contain fish. Once you've found the drop off or margin feature then away you go. If its a venue that I know then I already know which baits are favourite and try them first and am prepared to wait a long time before changing. If its somewhere new then I change baits about every half hour until I connect with a fish. Sometimes I reuse the same fish but this time inject fish oils into the dead bait. Some baits are fished on a float paternoster and some legered hard on the bottom and one popped up. I have two EA licences so tend to use four rods and search out the river to find the fish and see what baits work, its just a confidence thing, if youre confident in your baits and presentation then you will usually catch.
There are some sections of the rivers that I fish that hold the pike in the middle channel and not in the margins as thats where the roach and bream are so dont be frightened to experiment.
Take more baits than you think you will need and if kept in a cool box any unused will refreeze.
I dont use pollan as this is the new 'in' bait but is imported from Ireland where stocks are under pressure and dont use salmonoid baits (brown or rainbow trout)in Scotland as these are also illegal other than that give it a go.
PS
Whitings were catching lots of good pike last winter up here

I always try to use the freshest baits i can get my hands on. i change my deadbaits on each cast and usually if i have no interst in my baits i either change the bait, recast or move to where i can see fry and small roach jumping. often i use large sardines as bait so i have to change them any way because they are so soft. however if i use lamprey i will maybe recast this 3 or 4 times before i change it because it con tinuously leaks blood. one method that ive always found to produce large numbers of pike is to throw in a few kilos of groundbait mixed with chunks of sardines then fish a deadbait over the top. this way the groundbait attracts roach which then attract the pike which then takeS the DEADbait (or so i hope)

well i really only fish rivers,

when i am after zander,
i will fish deads headless,changing the bait after around 1-2 hours,in warm temps you will notice the bait going grey/yellow colour-thats when i change it,in winter the same can happen just it happens alot slower,the bait will be all washed out,again i change it regularly i like the bait to be fresh.
if i'm using lives i change them about once every 2-3ours depending on size of bait.
small baits expire quicker.(chub apart,the little soldiers)

for pike,
i change it reguarly too,for example when roving on the river i may use the same bait for 2-3 swims then i'll cnahnge it to another or difrent bait altogather.

lamprey is a pikers friend! it lasts for ages,on every re-cast when using lamprey,i put it under my foot and give it a squeeze,lets a nice flow of blood out!
i recast frequently with the same bait too,but it has to back to the exact spot.
sometimes i will sit in a swim where i know fish are layed up but not taking,so then i wil give a mackrel 15 mins then reel in and put a smelt on for 10 mins see what happens(the second rod is left well alone all this time no moved till its tiem to exit he swim).beleive me pike DO have prefrences to baits at times.so changing them reguarly does work.
can help find patterns too.one place i fished,all doubles came to sea deads hard on the bottom,herrng,mackrel and sardines worked best,found by changing and trying difrent baits,keep records to, then you will know what works and what dont,be warned tho prefrences do change!

[ 30. August 2005, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Ratty Fitzpatrick46 ]

Thanks. Lots of great info for me to take in there, very much appreciated.

Does anyone chop up deads that are no longer hook worthy and toss the bits into the swim (catapault, spod, whatever)?