My brain has been sorta churning around this evening. A combination of Peter Waller saying that the soft plastic lures had caught pike from nasty cover but only smaller fish and an earlier comment (don't remember who) that perch take a bait/lure much like the black bass I'm familiar with - they flare their gills to basically suck a large amount of water thru and bring their prey in with the rush of water.

Fact, large bass love to get deep into heavy cover like tree tops or brush or whatever. Great ambush spot for them and they really don't have to move too much but can simply slurp in whatever swims near.

Fact, pike bite and hold their prey so heavy cover may well not suit them. Too difficult to make a short rush to grab a meal.

Fact, heavy cover will hold fish that rarely, if ever, see an angler's bait or lure.

Speculation, fishing a soft plastic lure (or piece of pork strip Peter ) rigged weedless in the middle of the heaviest junk you can locate might result in takes by some perch larger than you thought lived in a particular piece of water.

Pretty much have to be brush or tree tops this time of year but come the summer, I'd also think that in the middle of the densest of weed would be an interesting place to try. Just have to go with heavy line and a stout rod to get the fish out but in serious salad, they should not be spooked by the heavier gear.

'A combination of Peter Waller saying that the soft plastic lures had caught pike from nasty cover but only smaller fish'

Not really the case. I've had fish to 25lb from deep cover under my rod tip on the Yare and I know of bigger and they rarely go down to 'jack' size. I've also had double figure fish from Oulton under the same circumstances. It should be a common way to lurefish rivers that are subject to heavy boat use and where the presence of a fishing boat almost within rod tip touching distance of the bank is therefore tolerated by the fish lying in between, in usually about 4-6 feet of water. I say 'should be' because it sometimes defies belief that you can get that close to a fish witout causing alarm and therefore the general tendency is to fan cast into space, ignoring the spots closer in where the bigger fish are lying up close to the bank in between the roots. I should add also that for the most part, these spots are not easily accessible from the bank. Unweighted softbaits tend to sink at the right speed too for this style of fishing. An underarm flick is all that's needed or you can with a bit of practise side cast lures across the surface with a low trajectory like skimming a stone, to get them right to the back of heavy cover between the roots and the lower branches. Relatively weedless surface lures like the Phat Rat work well too. This kind of short range work is about the only time I favour using fixed spool reels.

'Fact, pike bite and hold their prey so heavy cover may well not suit them'

Heavy cover will suit a big pike, its food is just as likely to blunder into cover and provide a meal and with our southern rivers seemingly stuffed with juvenile silver fish at present, they won't have to travel far if they venture out. In unfishable deep cover ie the back of reed beds, you can hear the occasional sounds of ducklings being attacked and consumed. Its most likely big pike involved and at certain times of the year it can go on all through the day. Not so much on my home river (thames) where deep cover is not so solidy packed and reeds are rare. Almost certainly the case on norfolk rivers tho'

Perch are a different problem and I've had more success in more open waters. The 'feature' there, is either a change in current strength or direction, a drop-off, a boat dock or a length of retaining wall. if I'm going to find fish under tree cover on the thames then its most likely to be either a jack or a chub. Not always, but mostly.

[ 27. January 2005, 02:25 AM: Message edited by: argyll ]

Thanks argyll. Interesting to 'think of' things but always better to hear first hand from someone who has been there & done that.

My feeling is that perch sometimes feed in and close to obstructions, feeding on the small stuff thats foraging for food. Feeding pike, as Newt suggests, whilst taking cover, want a clear run so to speak. But I have had far to many pike from deep in reed beds to ignore them as my hunting grounds. Pike will be in there for sure, perhaps not always feeding, but laying up. That they go for a lure is, I think, down to the invasion of privacy theory! Sod off you lure you! The Heddon Meadow Mouse is great for that type of fishing because it has the weight to penetrate reeds on a violent cast and its single hook rarely catches reeds or weeds.

When it comes to dense bush and trees, because of snagging problems, I tend to steer clear of them. But the DVD that Newt sent me showed bass being caught from seemingly inpenetratable scrub! All food for thought stuff.

Argyll's mention of unweighted shads is spot on, brillient. Like Argyll says, fishing to the obstruction, rather than fan casting away from it is worthwhile. Tis the only way!

In general it would seem that our experiences are pretty much in line so I guess its sound stuff Newt!

"Fact, large bass love to get deep into heavy cover like tree tops"

Really! I've been looking in the wrong places. They don't half evolve quickly!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Clearly BoozleBear you've never come across Anabas testudineus in your travels.

I find that feeding habits vary from water to water, and agree with Gerry and Peter that pike do feed in heavy cover.

As for perch, rather than repeat myself here, I'd direct anyone interested to an article I wrote on their feeding habits at http://anglers-net.co.uk/authors/steve09.htm

The only thing I'd add is that perch are not likely to be in the same cover as a hungry pike!

What, the flying perch, also known as Amphiprion scansor,nope, never heard or it!

The very same BB, except that 'round these parts we call it the 'climbing' perch.

oops!

Google got it wrong!