In the Mail this week, Garry Dawson of Bicester, used a 1lb 8oz roach as bait for his 20lb 8oz pike from the River Thames at Oxford.

John Sidley got his wrist slapped in a big way in the media for using roach and chub this size as baits.

I dont think I have ever used roach/rudd etc. bigger than 12 oz, but I have heard of pike anglers using jacks up to 5lb as bait in Scotland.

Am I correct in thinking roach/chub over 1lb should not be used?

Brian

In one Brian,YES! Not needed,old hat been done many times before,just makes the case for livebaiting harder to make.You will remember Chris Binyon?

'Big baits for big pike'

Well, it ain't necessarily so.

Most predators favour a prey with about 10% of their own bodyweight, to make a possibly unsuccesful chase worthwhile.

However when the attractant is the smell of a dead or injured fish, a pike has no way of assessing the size of the likely meal from the smell alone, and when it arrives on scene, oh well! it might as well eat it, however tiny.

And much the same for the sight and sound of a fish in trouble.

Attracted by the noise of a struggling tethered live-bait, unable to flee at speed, the pike will take it, even though it would not bother to chase such a small fish if it were free and lively.

On the other hand, when lure fishing, a bigger lure (or one that seems to a pike to be bigger) will attract the bigger fish.

Until the arrival in the UK of the larger musky lures and jerkbaits, lure fishing had a well deserved reputation for only being good for catching jacks.

Tight Lines - leon

Depends what you mean by big livebaits. In my impressionable youth, I too went through a phase when I thought big baits were the answer to catching big pike. It never really happened, though.
I've also seen some pretty horrible sights over the years, with pikers using baits which would be considered specimens to many anglers (including roach nudging 2 lb, used by anglers fishing from the very public dam wall at Sywell Reservoir, Northants... caught the previous day from the River Ise).
My own view is that a hand-sized bait is big enough to tempt any pike that swims. It also avoids the inevitable hooking problems.
As for lures, the big jerkbaits aren't the answer on all venues. I find in some small, shallow waters they scare more than they catch. It could just be me, though.

Well - with that Stretch 40+ (indicates it will dive to 40+ feet if you have the arm strength and the rod for it), if fishing is slow you can always just pretend the lure is a jack pike.

I seem to remember Back in the seventies a lot of work being done on "preferred bait size" and the conclusions being 4 to 6 inches? I believe it was Fred Wagstaffe who came up with this?

You really have got to be some sort of moron to use a roach of that size.

Den

Even 12oz is too big for a livebait.
Although I`ve livebaited many many times, I`d never consider using what another angler might consider a `nice fish`, and those that do ought to hang their heads in shame.
Livebaiting and fish welfare/conservationism are very strange bedfellows, don`t you think ??

Really large bait are not only wasteful, but unneccessary. More runs are missed with large livebait/deadbait than for any single reason, because small pike grab and subseqently make a mess of quality fish that they have little chance of swallowing.

I went to a recent PAC meeting where the well known speaker reckoned his string of 30 lbers were mostly down to using BIG livebaits.
I would add that the PAC organiser was not aware of the content of this persons talk as it has changed since the last one he gave [no mention of monster livelies before].

His message certainly got through to one or two in the room, who couldn't wait to pop that big roach or chub on their hooks.

Chris Binyon lives!! or his practises certainly do.
Colin