I'll be going to Citizens Advice but wondered if anyone here could help. I have been working as a coach driver for a company for more than 6 months and have just been sacked (Merry Xmas Huh!!).
A few points...
1. I have never been given or offered a contract and when asked the manager(not owner as he has been away from the co. starting another) said that the owner did not want to offer anybody one so he could move the goalposts as he wanted regarding hours, conditions etc. This was told to everybody not just me!
2. When I joined the co. the owner paid for me to upgrade my auto bus licence to a manual gearbox one. We arranged for me to pay back £25 per week. This was a verbal agreement. At one point I had to take a week off sick and got into financial difficulty and he lent me a further amount to tide me over.
3. A few weeks ago my partner suffered a severe mental illness and I had to take 2 weeks off to help her. I showed the manager HER certificate, which he said he had no interest in as it didnt relate to me,despite the fact that her mental ilness meant she needed 24hr supervision.
4.This week like many people in this country I have had a severe cold and cough and took a day off. Bear in mind that the conditions at work are that you do a school run in the morning then have to sit in a small room with 7+ other people smoking who complain bitterly when you open the door for some fresh air and laughing at the non smokers who are coughing there guts up! Alternative is to sit outside!
So now they have sacked me for not being reliable enough, yes I have had time off but have had no warnings, written or verbal, that this was detrimental to my employment. The boss has given me a weeks(not required to work) notice and said that the pay for this will offset the money that I owe him. So my £25 per week has now gone to "I'll just take the lot back"
The manager reckons the boss has seen his solicitor and that he is allowed to do this but I'm not sure. Obviously its only a weeks pay but I'd rather have that and pay him back when I have another job. I have and had no intention of not not paying him back.
So guys what do you think?
Are we still in the dark ages or what?
The manager, when I bought up these topics said "thats just the way the business is"!!
Hmm, I dont think so! No company is above the law and I'm sure not offering a contract is an offence for a start.

Cheers for any advice recieved,

Colin

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Today should be your last day for the school runs yes?

Now these buses are very light on the steering etc when empty, ie. after you have dropped all the kids off after school.............. surely the control of the bus is most difficult as you come up on that tight bend, you know the 1, with the large tree/wall/bridge...............

OOOPS skidded on some dead leaves, sorry about your bus.. (Been there done that )

Get your money's worth and have fun

Sorry to hear of your bad news, especially at this time of the year. The following is based on my experiences.

Unfortunately as you've only worked there for under 1 year he has every right to dismiss you fairly and without prior warnings.

What he hasn't given you is your 'Terms and Conditions', this isn't to be confused with a contract. An employment contract should be considered as everything, the phone call to apply for the job, the interview, the verbal agreements, the letter of job offer, the reply, the starting of the job and finally the 'Terms and Contitions', which should follow immediatly

Were there any witnesses to your verbal agreement?

To put this bluntly he may have been unreasonable (or at least unsympathetic), but he was right in what he has said. If you had your 'Terms and Conditions' to refer to this would have given guide lines on 'Time Off For Dependants' (and what are technically dependants)

Again, as you've only worked there for under 1 year he has every right to dismiss you fairly and without prior warnings.

Unforunately you haven't any 'Terms and Conditions' to refer to.

Unfortunately because you have worked for these employers for less than 1 year, even with 'Terms and Conditions', you have very little standing I'm affraid if they feel that they have been reasonable. If they believe that you have been in breach of your contract (which should have been layed out in your 'Terms and Conditions') for any (reasonable)reason, in this case they are alleging that you were 'unreliable', they can dismiss you without prior warnings.

I've got stuff to do now, but I'll give this some more thought.

[ 20. December 2002, 08:50 AM: Message edited by: Gaffer ]

Hi Colin,
Sorry to hear your news, I deal with Employment Law here at work and I have just lookied up in the manual a few points, you wont like them but here you go:

No employer is allowed to take maoney from your wages without your permission, he is also not allowed to withhold all of your wages in payment of your debt, this is because you have already agreed to have £25.00 per week removed.

Next:

Your time off, you are allowed to take resonable time away from work to care for familey members, however the question is what is reasonable ? but during this period you will NOT recieve pay.

Next:

Your contract of employment there is no law to say you should have one, however in case's like this they are usefull if you have one.

Next:

Final Payments, remember that from day 1 of any employment you are entiteled to 4 weeks paid holiday and for each complete month you gain 1 and a half days holiday, so you need to make sure you have that included in your final pay.

And Last.

If you plan to take it any further then you really dont have a leg to stand on, your employer has deemed you as unrealable and this is causing him problems in the runing of his business and his case for dismissel will be upheld.

Sorry its proberbly not what you want to hear, and i wish you well in the future, however i road to look down id the repayment of the gaining of your licence, because you agreed to repay the amount from your weekly wages while empoloyed by the firm, you may be able to have that written off as he has finished you, money paid in lue of work done is however fully recliamable.

Cheers
Chris

Sorry to hear about your loss of job, I dont no anything about employement law, so this message is just to say, despite your bad news we wish you and your family a happy christmas.

And next time I will check all the spelling, but the boss was around so i kept having to close the screen and then reopen it

Cheers for your sympathy and advice. The "better" half did some research too and found some of the relevant laws on the net. The working for less than a year thing is as usual what scuppers any claims I might have against them but I phoned the (ex) boss and he is taking the usual £25 and forgetting the rest(about £300) so a bit of a result. Still a major bummer before crimbo but no kids, only cats to support.......mind you 4 of the buggers can be as expensive as kids!

MERRY XMAS TO ALL AT ANGLERSNET!!!

Colin

and a merry christmas to you to colin,sorry to hear your news ,still don't let the ba****** grind you down.im sure anouther job will come up.

as to taking time off to look after family members remember this will put stress om you so in future get your own certificate im sure the doctor would have helped just a thought.cheers big al.
ps my dad was made redundent 2 weeks ago he is 67 got a new job 2 days later and phoned the first boss to let him know.revenge is sweet

Aren't there also laws regarding smoke-free workplaces as well?

Sorry to hear this story Colin, but it has become more and more common since Maggie ruined the country, and this "Labour" government" wont risk upsetting the capitalists. All those who said the unions were too powerfull in the 70s ought to hang their head in shame.
I hope something turns up soon and I hope your wife makes a full recovery.
The reason they are called boss is because t**t had already been taken.
Merry Christmas Dave