LINE: So you think you know what B.S. means?

Of course, when referring to a line, B.S. means … Breaking Strain …. WRONG !

In fact, it means Breaking Stress or Breaking Strength

Breaking Strain is something different … it’s the amount that the line is distorted under Stress i.e. an applied force, so I guess it’s really a measure of Stretch !

But looking at a load of Breaking Strength data I’ve got hold-of, I think that perhaps B.S. stands not for Breaking Stress/Strength but for Bull S***

So I have patented my own brand of lines ……
...........................

Anyway, guys ‘n’ gals, what I’d like to know, please, is ….. when you choose/buy a nylon or co-polymer monofil line of say, 12 lb BS, do you

a) expect this BS figure of 12 lb to refer to the dry, unknotted line or to the wet knotted line?

care whether or not the true wet-knot Breaking Strength is 80% or less of the claimed figure on the spool that you have just paid-for?
AND
c) if you do care, do you also think you are being conned or getting value-for-money.

This is a vast subject so it’d help me and other readers a lot if you could concentrate on Breaking Strength of nylon & copolymer monofil main lines in this thread, please.

Thanks

DG

[ 19. February 2004, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: The Diamond Geezer ]

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I don't trust line, and I don't trust knots.

The bs at time of purchase is no guide to the bs that you have on the reel today.

A line that seemed fine last week, goes like cotton today.

So I'll routinely discard (cut up with scissors) the first couple of metres of line, and carefully inspect a few more metres for abrasion damage.

Tackled up, I'll hook up to something, let out two or three metres and put some strain on the whole set up.

Occasionally the line goes 'ping' and I thank my stars that I'd tested the rig before fishing, and not lost a good fish.

I'll also routinely replace the line two or three times during the season.

So, although I'll buy line that feels and looks good, and has a bs and diameter around what I'm after, what I bought is academic to me, it's how it measures up to my rough and ready testing today that's important.

Test the line scientifically, diameter and strength, by all means, but it's very much like the MOT.

The result is only good for the time of the test.

So I'm happy to accept the figures on the pack as a rough guide, along with my visual/tactil examination.

If the line doesn't perform to my expectations 'in the field', I'll not touch that brand again, and I'll tell my friends.

Tight Lines - leon

I'll tend to believe the rated b/s of lines that are IGFA rated. At least at mfgr time they should have tested right at the rated strength.

After all, for a line-class record fish the IGFA will test line from the spool you used to make sure it isn't stronger than the rated strength.

I do have to admit I take this pretty much on faith though. Simply a matter that folks who go for those records would probably scream long and loud if the line failed the after-testing and I imagine the company would have to remove any IGFA Certified / Tested label from the package.

I do notice they don't mention wet or dry testing so I have to assume dry which does make things a little less real-world accurate than otherwise.

quote:

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Originally posted by Newt:
I'll tend to believe the rated b/s of lines that are IGFA rated. At least at mfgr time they should have tested right at the rated strength.

After all, for a line-class record fish the IGFA will test line from the spool you used to make sure it isn't stronger than the rated strength.

I do have to admit I take this pretty much on faith though. Simply a matter that folks who go for those records would probably scream long and loud if the line failed the after-testing and I imagine the company would have to remove any IGFA Certified / Tested label from the package.

I do notice they don't mention wet or dry testing so I have to assume dry which does make things a little less real-world accurate than otherwise.

---

At least Sufix test their lines !

DG

quote:

---

Originally posted by Leon Roskilly:
...... I'll routinely discard (cut up with scissors) the first couple of metres of line, and carefully inspect a few more metres for abrasion damage.

I'll also routinely replace the line two or three times during the season.

If the line doesn't perform to my expectations 'in the field', I'll not touch that brand again, and I'll tell my friends.

Tight Lines - leon

---

I think that empirical field testing goes hand-in-hand with proper lab tests.
.................

After all, you wouldn't expect Sensima to rely on empirical tests as a basis for their label claims

With reference to the graph above .... with the degradation of line with use and time and exposure to the elements, day and/or night, sunlight or over-cast, there are a lot of variables. In order to get some meaningful figures from weatherometer tests, a few variables have to be fixed, and a few assumptions made.

Also, the period of the tests shown in hours, will have to be correlated with your own fishing times e.g. if you fish on average, 2 days/week for 4hrs at a time, and for say 9 months of the year (if you’re lucky), this computes to about 300 hrs/year…. and so on.

Also the temperature has a big effect and for the purposes of the tests, was fixed at 10 deg C; the higher the temperature, the greater the rate of degradation.

As far as oxygen (air) is concerned, the line was either totally immersed in water saturated with air, or in air in a mist of water.

A northern hemisphere average daylight hours / UV light exposure was also programmed into the tests.

With this set of parameter you can see that
(a) Nylon 66/6 co-polymer performs better than straight Nylon 66 mono, but still loses about 33% of its original strength (wet, unknotted BS) in 1600 hrs
AND
( straight Nylon 66 monofil loses nearly 50% of its original strength over the same period.

Using the very approximate figure of 300 hrs as the equivalent to a season’s fishing, the straight Nylon 66 monofil has lost about a third of its original strength in two seasons’ fishing …. well over-due for a change of line.

These tests broadly equate to line used and kept on the reel spool, not to the original spool of line kept at home, cool, and in the dark … but still exposed to oxygen (air) .. and before anyone asks ,, no, I haven’t got that data to hand for any of the latest 4th and 5th generation nylon 66 monos and co-polymer-monos….. why not try it for yourselves … you can get a very crude indication using weigh-scales or a spring-balance etc.

DG

Next topic? .... abrasion-resistance!

[ 19. February 2004, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: The Diamond Geezer ]

Can bugger up the accuracy of the spring-balance though

Tight Lines - leon

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Diamond Geezer:
you can get a very crude indication using weigh-scales or a spring-balance etc.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Leon Roskilly:
Can bugger~up the accuracy of the spring-balance though

Tight Lines - leon

---

Yup, but only if you let it recoil violently ... not my fave method though, by any means. I think Poledark has a dedicated one for his tests. I've always wondered about the accuracy of some spring-balance anyway .. OK for a guide to the weight of a fish.

Going back to lines, I prefer (and am very lucky to be able) to use the
tensile tensiometers in the Labs where my mate works


DG

[ 21. February 2004, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: The Diamond Geezer ]

I couldn't agree more. Lines can lie around in shops for months, maybe even years. If it looks alright and suits my purposes, I'll try it out. If it doesn't meet my requirements, I'll use a different brand. If lines continuously fail, regardless of the brand, I go to a shop that looks after thier lines and maybe try the same brands all over again. Thankfully, this doesn't happen too often and Daiwa Sensor rarely lets me down anyway. It's the stuff I use for hooklengths I tend to worry about.

quote:

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Originally posted by Andy Macfarlane:
Lines can lie around in shops for months, maybe even years.

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Hence the Use by: date-code on my
NO B.S. brand


DG

quote:

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Originally posted by Andy Macfarlane:
.... Daiwa Sensor rarely lets me down

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I doubt that fresh Sensor would ever let you down under normal circumstances

DG

quote:

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Originally posted by Andy Macfarlane:
It's the stuff I use for hooklengths I tend to worry about.

---

Which brands have you found to be OK for hooklengths?

DG

[ 21. February 2004, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: The Diamond Geezer ]

DG I think you should write into one of the angling rags. Get this stuff heard and maybe make a difference. Improve Your Coarse Fishing or Angling Times would be good starting points.