am keen angler with large-ish 20' *10' *4' filtered pond and can get hold of as many prey fish as possible ( i'll need to keep it topped up with prey to prevent them eating each other). i know that they must be kept in groups or the females will spawn up and die when they can't breed with males. the problem is that i can only get hold of large ones. i know where there are lots of 6"-9" pike but they won't take any of my tiny live-baits or spinners and the depth they live in is about 6" ( or less!!!!!!!!) so fishing isn't easy. they seem to just sit there, i have had lines out all day and they were the tiny fry that they were in the lake and were less than an inch long. i actually think that they would be more challenging quarry than are large pike because there is no literature and its all working it through for youself like your the first angler. the problem is that i can;t catch them. they also are way too quick to be taken with nets or with my nets. i was wondering if anybody in this forum had ever caught these tiny critters before. i just figure that small ones will a) fit in better as they wo't know the wild and they'll naturally stunt to fit well but with normal methods small pike under a couple of years old never get caught and they certainly don't take deads. they seem to merely eat each other where i fish for them ( the only thing i have seen them eat is pike as big as themselves ) other challenges about catching them is that they live in reeds so if they pull away and you don't strike quickly they'll get all snagged up though i do know of clear placs where there are loads ( tho its hard to cast as to get there you must be in a bush with no casting ). i amaware that some places such as warf aquatics nottingham sells them along with stillwater "lake" barbel BUT i imagine they cost a pretty penny and i live in london and i'd like certain genetic make-ups ( with many diff pike populations having different characterics from red finned bright green to hte white english river pike and then the english pugnosed pike and the pike that are a deep brown and the populations with huge heads and those with bright yellow fins see and then there are non native types of pike like the amur pike see http://www.pacgb.co.uk/aboutpike/oddities.htm for pictures )

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Are you doing whats best for the fish ?

The inentional stunting of its growth for instance ?

um, i would say that stunting them is ok morally and physicaly for the pike . number 1) whenever a largeish fish eg a carp kept in a smallish body of water stunting is likely and is considered ok, all mirror carp can grow to 30+ pounds but that they don't is because their growth is stunted by being kept in ponds, so it is normal when keeping fish 2) in commercial fisheries most fish stunt because of overstocking and in lots of other bodies without preditors yuo get tons of small stunted fish, so it does happen naturally 3) in the wild a female pike can produce 300,000+ young a season of which only a tiny fraction live to adulthood so any individual pike is unlikely to survive and starvation of young pike is one of the main reasons they don't along with being eaten by other fish/animals so the individual pike will have a better life and were it a rational animal would choose my pond over a minimal chance of maturing in the wild 4) the pike won't be totally stunted, as if they are really short on food they eat each other so i'd only partially limit food and space when they were young and then increase it as they mature. there are several people on this forum that have kept pike, could any of them tell the method by which they obtained them?

Im no so sure mate,

over stocking, stunted and natuaral all in the same sentance How big is your pond?

Don't think a pike would be stunted in my pond 6m x3m as every year without fail the bloody gold fish breed. Started out with three origionally to test the water to see if it was ok, then the buggers bred. One year we completly drained the pond, put all the goldfish in the top waterfall pond (idiot) overnight some of them just went down the waterfall and started breeding again. So keeping pike would be good or some fishy contraception.

I don't see he point.
You're never going to see them and they'll be a pain to maintain.
I could understand wanting to keep small ones in a nicely set up tank but not in a pond.

Can of worms.....

http://www.efishbusiness.co.uk/formsandgui...0Form%20FR1.pdf

you are correct that you won't be able to see them as well as other fish but perhaps that is part of the alure. they will be difficult to lookafter but with koi one can't plant a pond, at least with pike they won't continually dig up the plants. With regards the link that the user synonomous gave me EA permission is not required as pike are a native species and the pond falls within the legal definition of an ornamental pond. Were this not the case one wouldn't find many specialist fish sellers selling them ( althought they do so at ridiclous prices and the ones i have found are all up north ).

in response to the argument that they will hide deep down ect i disagree, with tench yes but small pike ty and stay in shallow water to avoid predation by larger fish, larger pike also seem to have a habit of hanging in hte shallows to hunt. i have often seen small pike and large pike chilling in shallows and in easy to see places but small tench, carp,gudgeon,bullheads,bream and stone loaches are far harder to see as they tend to hide in the depths of hte water and are not often seen.pike do enjoy basking in shalow water that heats up.