Let me paint the scene if I may...

I've been passing on my angling skills to my partner and her lad over the past year (which surprisingly did take longer than the 10 minutes you'd expect) who I'd equipped with cheap 4m margin whips. Things were going very well, bagging up at various venues with fish to a maximum of about 2.5lbs.

Recently we've been fishing our new club's lake, where (esp. at this time of year) the carp (to 10lb) are pretty frisky, so much so that young Master Angly managed to snap the tip section of his whip. I did heroicly then try to land the carp for him on the 6inch tip section, but eventually suffered a hookpull/discard. So, thinking it would be the perfect solution, I ordered some new shiney Middy Impact 4m whips, pre-elasticated with a No. 12-14.

Our first session on the new whips was yesterday evening, and my pupils managed to miss bites, mis-strike, hook pull, snap-off, and ultimately blank. Not wanting to go home without giving the whips a proper test, I took over one and quickly had a feisty carp pull the elastic all the way out. Woohoo!

Right then, what on earth does one do next? I could see he carp was small (about 4lbs ish), but try as I might I couldn't get the bugger within netting range, as soon as he was within range, he'd take off again and extend the elastic. Grrrrrr. How on earth can you fish without a direct connection between angler and fish (as there is with both rod and whip)?

I'm hoping the experienced pole/whip anglers might be able to give me a tip or two?

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I know that today some whips have elasticated tip sections but they don't resemble true whips in the least and you descibed the classic fault with them.
I have a 6 metre whip which I fish at 5 metres leaving a section to add if I hook something bigger than expected.

I dont know why they call any short elasticated pole a whip these days. They are just short poles and not whips. whips were called whips because they resembled whips and were fine and whippy (without needing elastic).

A true whip has a fine sensitive bendy solid tip which will absorb the fight from a fish (a bit like a 2oz quiver tip)
A true whip has line attached to the tip and is long enough so that the fish swings to hand when the tip is raised.
Most good whips have the bottom one or two sections push in with the other sections telescopic, this is so you can fish without the bottom section until you happen to hook a larger than normal fish then by adding the extra section you can still swing it to hand or net it with ease.

Some modern whips also have an extra tip section which is elasticated in addition to the proper un-elasticated whippy tip section.

This post has been edited by BoldBear: Jun 13 2009, 11:13 PM

I shall I answer your question and not rant on what a whip is and isn't!!

The idea is for the elastic to tire the fish out eventually and so the elastic moves in!! If you are struggling with too much elastic going out/being stretched you may have too light an elastic and have to alter that for the fish you are targeting... alternatively you may have too much elastic set up so you may shorten the amount of elastic within the pole...
Finally when you are playing the fish do not exert too much pressure, fish react in a mirrored effect to this, you pull hard they pull hard.... a famous saying i once heard - play a carp like a skimmer and they'll behave like a skimmer!! only bring the pole up once they are near to you, try adding more elevation also by standing or holding the pole over your head pointing behind you!

Cheers Matt, guess I just need to get used to this completely alien method!

Boldbear, I also tend to reserve "whip" for a short, probably telescopic pole with a flicktip rather than elastic, but it's worth pointing out that such a thing is designed for speed fishing for tiddlers, not 4lb carp!

BoldBears comments have actually left me rather confused.

Previously my partner and her son used traditional whips (using BoldBear's definition), but now they use identical blanks (different graphics) with the tip section changed for a thicker/stiffer item which is elasticated. Surely they ARE elasticated whips and not poles? They are not elasticated like a pole (only the tip section being elasticated), neither are they fished like a pole (they are fished 'to hand', 4m of line out on a 4m whip).

Or have I missed something?

No you are not missing anything, It's just me being a moaning old codger, I havent fished matches for a long time now and if you had a whip with an elasticated top section a few years ago you would have been laughed at for the obvious reasons, but in this modern world things have changed.

NB. I've caught several Carp between 3lb and 5lb (more by accident than by choice) on my traditional whips (as did our other team members) but I certainly wouldn't use my traditional whip for them by choice, however if I hadn't had the bottom section lying on the ground as an extension just in-case I hooked a biggie I would have had a lot of trouble playing and landing them; as you did with your elastic.
I would have thought that for slightly bigger fish they would have just used a stepped up whip with all of it;s advantages but obviously not.

But I still can't fathom why a much stiffer tip which allows a short piece of elastic to be threaded through it would be better than a fine progressive supple tip section??? I know a short length of elastic would stretch when a larger fish is hooked by chance but a fine progressive supple tip section would bend a lot more easily while giving you more direct control, plus it wouldn't suffer from worn elastic??

Still they call that progress, so who am I to argue with modern Ideas? I'm probably just too set in my old fashioned ways

This post has been edited by BoldBear: Jun 15 2009, 02:41 PM

I'm no pole expert, but I've done a fair bit. It sounds like it's simply that the fish are too strong for the tackle. Yes, with time and patience you can land bigger fish on short poles/whips but if you're struggling I reckon you either need a pole with either more sections, or stronger elastic, or both.

Or a rod and reel.

It's funny what you remember - when I was a kid, we had a 6m telescopic pole, un-elasticated, with flick-tip. I think it actually belonged to Chris, but all of us had custody of it at some point. The only thing I really remember about using it was hooking a nice tench at Compstall and having one of those gold sweetcorn hooks completely straightened! Not happy, as I recall

I'll guess it's because it's easier and cheaper to make a stiff heavy tip blank that is unlikely to snap, and then slap some elastic in, than to make a supple forgiving progressive tip.

Are there any British Standards for elastic strength (perish the thought that angling tackle would have to adhere to set standards). Our whips have 12-14 rated elastic, apparently sufficient for carp up to 10lbs according to all the articles I've perused. How do we test it really IS 12-14 strength?

Next week I'll be asking how to cast a 2oz feeder loaded with 4oz of feed with the whips, and how one attaches the bite alarm.

This post has been edited by Angly: Jun 15 2009, 04:35 PM