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Hello all. New here. Scottish Kayak/rock fisher


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#21 Jaffa

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 02:23 AM

Newt,

quote:


I guess these fall into the fairly broad category along with water skiing, fast cars, and fast boats that were fun when I was a good few years younger.

No "fast women" in that list !!!? does that mean they are still fun ? :D

Not sure we are talking about the same kinds of kayaks though. Oh for a picture or two, this would be easier :(

There are basically three kinds of canoe/kayak;

The sit in one you mention, with two pointy ends is the classic kayak (or often "canoe" in the UK just to confuse everyone ). The paddler uses a single long paddle with blades at both ends. Paddler is sitting in an enclosed cockpit in the middle. These things are strictly for use by people who have been trained properly. Fishing from them presents a lot of problems and dangers but some people manage it. Eskimos have done it for long enough i guess.

Then theres what in the UK is called a "Canadian canoe" (Just "canoe" over your way) which ,in my imagination anyway, is the classic "Red Indian" canoe. Its still double ended but open and basically a thin dingy. Its paddled using a short paddle with a blade at one end only. Paddler usually sits at the back. I believe these are used a lot for FW fishing in the states but not something you'd want to take to sea at all. Quite popular up here for camping trips and the like as they can carry a ton of beer, ermm, I mean "supplies".

The last, and newest design, is the "Sit on top" or "Recreational" kayak. These things look very much like the traditional "sit in" kayak from a distance and are paddled in the same way. Instead of an enclosed cockpit the top of the hull is moulded into a seating area, usually with an area to stow gear just behind the paddler. Its these things that are being used by some anglers and divers now.

Not sure which of the last two you saw with the dad and his two lads. Your proberly none the wiser after this post either :D . Confusing myself here...


Chris
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#22 Yakity - Yak - u.k.

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 02:37 AM

Hi Newt,
Kayak fishing has been big in your country for years, infact the Sit On Top Kayak has been around since the early 70s, they were first designed for diveing, but because of their versatility progressed to other forms of use, like surfing and fishing.
Because of the growing popularity of kayak fishing, the manufactuers, are now trying to develope yaks soley for fishing. Haveing seen the efforts of the riders that use them to fish, and, some of the ingenious bits and bobs they engineer from a beer crate, to a pice of polly pipe, Its got them thinking about new designs.
Ohh and by the way....(when you were younger)
There is a guy over there in his 70s that rides a yak :P :P :D .
I think one of the most refreshing aspects of kayak fishing, is how simplistic it is.
Maybe the sport hasnt reached your coast yet, that could be why you have seen so few out there ??
Newt, when you say they seem to be aimlessly going around the lake, it realy is so relaxing, first being on the water, and being so close to nature.Next time you see one on the lake take some time to see the contentment.

#23 Yakity - Yak - u.k.

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 02:42 AM

Jaffa,

Sorry our posts seemed to overlap each other there.......still we know what we mean.. :D :D :D

#24 Newt

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 04:17 AM

Guys - you can get a copy of the free picture editing program Irfanview along with the set of plug-ins for making your pics like you want them.

Then to http://www.go-fishing.org/upload/ to put them on the web space Elton has set up for us. The only trick is to make sure there are no spaces in the filename.

And after that, post away. In fact, here are some kayak pics I 'borrowed' from various web sites. I've put in my thoughts on them and hopefully it will help with discussions since you can tell me where I messed up.

#1 - Standard canoe just for comparison. In the US, not considered a kayak of any sort at all
Posted Image

#2 - Absolutely bog-standard one person kayak but not a serious white water design. This is what I see the most of on my local lakes
Posted Image

#3 - Sort of a half canoe/half kayak thing. I think
Posted Image

#4 - The 2 person version of a standard recreational/calm lake kayak
Posted Image

#5 - More open cockpit space and I have seen folks lake fishing from this style
Posted Image

#6 - Sea-going version of the one shown just above
Posted Image

#7 - Sit-on and sea-going. Never seen one of this design in person.
Posted Image

[ 07. June 2004, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: Newt ]
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#25 Yakity - Yak - u.k.

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 04:30 AM

Hi Newt ,

Thankyou for your help with the picture posting,
much appreciated.
1st picture...shame those young ones wernt wearing the p-f-ds.
Picture 7....thats one modle thats used for fihing.


Thanks again Newt :cool:

#26 Jaffa

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 05:19 AM

Nice one Newt :D and can't really see anywhere that you messed up.

1. Canoe but in the UK canoes and kayaks tend to get lumped togeather as canoes by anyone except the kind of enthusiasts pictured in 6. and 4 :) .

2. Typical "cheap and cheerful" sit inside kayak (SIK) used by Scout groups, park depts etc, to train people in safe areas under supervision. Turn easy but horrible to try and keep on a straight line. Yakity says the people going in endless circles are "enjoying becoming at one with their kayak". Aye right ! it's newbies in useless kayaks having a nightmare :D

3. The half canoe/kayak is a good description. There is one that is popular with sheltered water guys in the states. Called the "pungo" i think. Might be good for FW Pike anglers and the like here. Big advantage is that you stay dry but if you tip your stuffed and need to get to land to drain it.

4,5,6 "Serious" touring kayaks. Fast but tippy
and you have to know how to "eskimo roll" . For experienced and trained people only. Nah use for fishing. People have done some huge seagoing trips in these though.

7. Sit on top (SOT). Loads of different makes and sizes that work for fishing but this particular one (the OK prowler) is interesting because its specifically designed for fishermen following feedback from US Kayak anglers. Never seen it in the flesh but the people that have them seem to love them. The milkcrate with rodholders cabletied to the frame is pretty typical and similar to what i use myself.

Chris
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#27 Newt

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 05:57 AM

Well guys - if #1 is considered a kayak then I got lots of hours in one of those. :D Interesting that 'canoe' is used over there as a general description of two very different boat designs. I never knew that.

This is another case of assumptions. I assumed that UK folks used different terms for the two styles and UK folks assumed that everyone called both styles a 'canoe'. Same sort of thing as with 'bream' where yours are large and slimy while ours are small and feisty (sunfish/bluegill) or 'buzzard' which is used to describe very different birds US vs. UK.

I tried to find one of the old, traditional Eskimo sit-inside design where the user pulls seal skin (attached to the yak) up and ties it around the waist to keep water out but couldn't. Are any of that style in use these days?
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#28 Yakity - Yak - u.k.

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 01:48 AM

Hi Jaffa,
The o.k. prowler is a nice yak,but not for a begginer to the sport,(what do you think ??)
Shorter and wider yaks are the ones to start in.
For one thing they are easier to handle in wind and surf.
In most cases they are easier to rig,more importantly,easier to get back onto if your unlucky enough to flip.
A new yak rider will tend to stay inshore(Hopefully)and will not want to paddle very far to fish, (not that you need too anyway.)
When yak skills and experience are honed,the rider may want to travel more distance,this is where the longer yaks come into play.
Most offer more speed and cover the distance with ease,manouverability is not such a factor, in this case.
Transporting a yak to the fishing site is another factor,so the length and weight of the beast should be thought about too.
This is where fishing in pairs has its advantages, not only for the safety aspect,but the help you can give each other getting the yaks to the waters edge.
I have made a yak cart,to help with longer walks to the launch site,copied the idea off the yak forums,great help .
Easey to make,and you can take it on the yak when you go out :cool: .
well thats my two penneth :D

#29 Jaffa

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 03:46 AM

Divided by a common language eh Newt? :D . Don't know much about the Eskimos/inuit and how they did things but you got me curious and a search found a couple of site, one of which has some modern enthusiasts coping the sealskin idea. Called a "tuilik" apparently. Some old photos of eskimo boats here:

http://www.kayakers.nf.ca/labradorinuitkay...ayakphotos.html

Grainy photo of the sealskin setup here;
http://www.wavelengthmagazine.com/2003/dj03inuit.php

and a modern "tuilik" design;
http://www.seacanoe.org/tuilik.htm

Looking at how flimsy their boats were its a wonder there are any inuit people left
Tough people to do what they did eh?

Chris.
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#30 Jaffa

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Posted 09 June 2004 - 04:17 AM

Yakity, thanks for the tips before btw; sry, was'nt trying to be rude, just missed your post and you pack a lot in... Unlike my wife i can only handle one point at a time :) I like to think its that focused "hunters brain" but im sure she'd say different and blame guiness

The prowler not a good boat for beginners? Having never tried one I would'nt like to say; surely its going to depend on what they what to do with it? It might well be the ideal boat for many judging by its spec and reviews.

A shorter kayak is better in surf, but thats not an issue if someone rarely launches or lands through surf. I can launch from fairly sheltered places so its not an issue for me for instance.

I totally disagree with you about short and wide being better in the wind. In the wind the better tracking (ability to go in a straight line) and increased speed is the thing to have every time. Wind speed can pick up real quick where i live and when it does i want to be able to head for home quickly.

I agree about the weight issue but my fishing kayak is only 5lbs or so lighter than the "prowler" and I find it manageable. Things like the "fish and dive" model would be too much for me though.

IMHO its better to do the research, ask the questions, and get the kayak thats right for your conditions and fishing method. Whats the point in blowing cash on a yak, only to have to "upgrade" a short time later. Don't know about you but i was pretty confident on my first one within the first few hours.

Chris


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