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CEFAS Questionnaire


Elton

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Things have been along time in the making glenk, you where told time and time again or should I say warned about the pitfalls of bureaucracy and the bureaucrats. But you would have none of it. You where warned by ex commercial fishermen and commercial fishermen on here who had the hindsight and experience to warn you of what you where letting yourselves in for. But instead you where spending all your energy on a constant assault against individuals on here and commercial fishermen while proudly supporting Leon at every given opportunity.

Would you like me to show the forum some links? I am sure you wouldn’t.

Stop blaming others for at least doing something that they obviously believe in when doing nothing yourself, well nothing till now that is. Along time in the making.

Regards.

 

Go on then, Challenge, go way back into the AnglersNet archives and dig up some old posts. You'll find plenty of my own posts in there supporting Leon & Co, too, to go with Glenn's. A lot, no almost all, of us have been taken in by the charade at some time or other. Some still believe it! Hind sight is a wonderful thing and a hell of a lot of water has passed under the bridge in the last 4 or 5 years. Lessons have been learnt, or at lest they should have been learnt. From my own point of view, meeting Wurzel, (back in about 2003?), was a revelation. Up until then I had never talked to anyone with any real experience of dealing with Defra, Cefas, Ices, Fisheries Ministers and Managers, etc, and, instead, had to rely on what I was being told by Leon & Co. Most of which turned out to be ****s, as it happens.

 

The things is, a lot of what has been discussed behind closed doors with Defra, etc, is only just coming to light. The more you dig, the more you keep coming up with. It's quite frightening to think that the charade has been going on for so long. Now we've got one single voice in the shape of the Angling Trust, which is being part funded by the government, (Sport England), and the WWF, and who are advertising well paid jobs where the only qualifications, it seems, is the ability to talk to politicians! We've got Article 47 coming from the EU on one side, the threat of MCZ's coming from our own people, on the other and absolutely nothing to fight them off with!. I'd say we are in a right state, wouldn't you?

 

You can gloat if it makes you feel good, I won't deny you that pleasure, but harking back years for something to have a dig at Glenn about is a bit daft, if you ask me.

DRUNK DRIVERS WRECK LIVES.

 

Don't drink and drive.

 

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From my own point of view, meeting Wurzel, (back in about 2003?), was a revelation. Up until then I had never talked to anyone with any real experience of dealing with Defra, Cefas, Ices, Fisheries Ministers and Managers, etc, and, instead, had to rely on what I was being told by Leon & Co.

 

I can't reconcile with those deductions.

 

"Should've listened to the commercials ... et al"

 

What a lot of krap!

 

Ask the commercials how they feel after 100 years of pillage and now 10 years of contractions.

And of course, their representative bodies WERE full-time professionals.

You may be right, however, in so much as we have learned what their lot did for them!

 

I'm afraid it isn't the 'system', but the 'cause and effect' which is being scrutinised.

 

You'll still be able to catch a few East Coast cod and smuts, Steve, when the last trawler has been sunk to make an artificial reef.

 

Roll it on ...

sustainable shell-fishing with pots and the 'cottage' commercial fin-fisher with his static gear.

 

Booger the Big Pairs and Over 12s and long live King Wurzel.

 

B)

Edited by H.A.
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Go on then, Challenge, go way back into the AnglersNet archives and dig up some old posts. You'll find plenty of my own posts in there supporting Leon & Co, too, to go with Glenn's. A lot, no almost all, of us have been taken in by the charade at some time or other. Some still believe it! Hind sight is a wonderful thing and a hell of a lot of water has passed under the bridge in the last 4 or 5 years. Lessons have been learnt, or at lest they should have been learnt. From my own point of view, meeting Wurzel, (back in about 2003?), was a revelation. Up until then I had never talked to anyone with any real experience of dealing with Defra, Cefas, Ices, Fisheries Ministers and Managers, etc, and, instead, had to rely on what I was being told by Leon & Co. Most of which turned out to be ****s, as it happens.

 

The things is, a lot of what has been discussed behind closed doors with Defra, etc, is only just coming to light. The more you dig, the more you keep coming up with. It's quite frightening to think that the charade has been going on for so long. Now we've got one single voice in the shape of the Angling Trust, which is being part funded by the government, (Sport England), and the WWF, and who are advertising well paid jobs where the only qualifications, it seems, is the ability to talk to politicians! We've got Article 47 coming from the EU on one side, the threat of MCZ's coming from our own people, on the other and absolutely nothing to fight them off with!. I'd say we are in a right state, wouldn't you?

 

You can gloat if it makes you feel good, I won't deny you that pleasure, but harking back years for something to have a dig at Glenn about is a bit daft, if you ask me.

Hi Steve.

I don’t want to gloat at glenk, s and others misjudgement of “wurzel, s world” but what I was trying to state was that the unfounded and unjust attempts to discredit “wurzel,s world” for so long while tragically drifting along in “Leon’s world” didn’t help to stop what is happening today.

But perhaps people could learn from the past. You won’t have a chance of changing proposals for change in a world that is destined for change unless you have realistic proposals yourself.

Attacking commercial fishermen (who have to live with radical change everyday) or attacking “Leon’s world” while having no proposals of your own does sound “a bit daft” to me Steve.

Regards

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And of course, their representative bodies WERE full-time professionals.

 

 

Very wrong Ha.

 

As far as I'm aware no representatives on any inshore fishermen's association were ever full time professionals the ones locally to me certainly were not and even now they have all amalgamated in to NUFTA none are full time professionals, most never claim expenses let alone get paid a wage.

The NFFO have very little if any thing to do with small inshore vessels.

 

Quote

 

I'm afraid it isn't the 'system', but the 'cause and effect' which is being scrutinised.

 

 

No it's not, not by those on this forum anyway, these threads are about the system and how it's used to get the end result DEFRA require, the cause and effects are a different topic which we have battled over on past threads and which I am trying not to disrupt this one with.

 

The perceived cause and effect is what got it all started in the first place and the prescribed cure will be way out of proportion to the actual cause and effects.

I fish to live and live to fish.

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Very wrong Ha.

 

As far as I'm aware no representatives on any inshore fishermen's association were ever full time professionals the ones locally to me certainly were not and even now they have all amalgamated in to NUFTA none are full time professionals, most never claim expenses let alone get paid a wage.

The NFFO have very little if any thing to do with small inshore vessels.

 

Quote

 

I'm afraid it isn't the 'system', but the 'cause and effect' which is being scrutinised.

 

 

No it's not, not by those on this forum anyway, these threads are about the system and how it's used to get the end result DEFRA require, the cause and effects are a different topic which we have battled over on past threads and which I am trying not to disrupt this one with.

 

The perceived cause and effect is what got it all started in the first place and the prescribed cure will be way out of proportion to the actual cause and effects.

 

I am sure that this is a research project at this stage and it will be the first of many, its conclusions after months of data collection and statistical analysis will be inconclusive needing further study. Then no doubt someone will feel that the economists will need to have an impact, hence a new thread of research projects on the economic implications and values of introducing marine protected zones. Having introduced the the marine protected zones we will need more research to fully understand their impact and value to anglers and so it goes on. Well we have now established a well funded research department with numerous people undertaking numerous projects and writing numerous scientific papers about us. With this comes the management strategy for angling, so there will be a management team within DEFRA and of course the police force.

As they do more research they will propose yet more management initiatives and more agencies will become involved to the point where we become totally over managed and killed off just as Wurzel tells us. He is of course totally correct because they have done it with every class of commercial fishing vessel.

 

However do not fear if you are over 60 years of age because they need us for the next 10-15 years to justify all the reserch funding.

One important fact of life is that as soon as a fisheries topic becomes politically hot they will throw money at it for years. I had a really good run for about 10 years getting funding for discard research. The problem with it all is that the statisticians need every experiment to be statistically proven before they can support it and hence the research drags on for years before anyting ever gets into legislation, unless political pressure is such that there is a need to be seen to be doing something. That is what brough about square mesh panel legislation in demersal trawls. When fishing is light they release a few haddock and whiting but as soon as you are on bulk fishing they are worse than useless.

 

Anyway let us watch this space and see how they use all the fiction that will be sent in on these questionaires, which is of course another big issue, management strategies based on statistical analysis of fictional data and it happens a lot.

 

Cleeclive

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Anyone got any idea where they're selling tickets for trips on this gravy train? Looks like it beats working for a living.

 

My understanding of these issues is not great, so please forgive me for sounding stupid, but why isn't every angler in this country fully aware of what's going on? This line, for instance:

 

Natural England (NE) and JNCC have the responsibility of developing a stakeholder engagement project to recommend a network of Marine Conservation Zones (MCZs) in English Territorial waters and UK offshore waters adjacent to England and Wales by October 2011.

 

The decision to make no-angling and angling-restricted areas has already been made, it appears. Apparently, we're not discussing whether they'll happen, but what restrictions will be imposed upon us. Is any 'angling representative' actively engaged in fighting off these restrictions 100%? What is the official stance of the Angling Trust on all this?

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Anyone got any idea where they're selling tickets for trips on this gravy train? Looks like it beats working for a living.

 

My understanding of these issues is not great, so please forgive me for sounding stupid, but why isn't every angler in this country fully aware of what's going on? This line, for instance:

 

 

 

The decision to make no-angling and angling-restricted areas has already been made, it appears. Apparently, we're not discussing whether they'll happen, but what restrictions will be imposed upon us. Is any 'angling representative' actively engaged in fighting off these restrictions 100%? What is the official stance of the Angling Trust on all this?

 

SILENCE.

http://sea-otter2.co.uk/

Probably Whitby's most consistent charterboat

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Anyone got any idea where they're selling tickets for trips on this gravy train? Looks like it beats working for a living.

 

My understanding of these issues is not great, so please forgive me for sounding stupid, but why isn't every angler in this country fully aware of what's going on? This line, for instance:

 

 

 

The decision to make no-angling and angling-restricted areas has already been made, it appears. Apparently, we're not discussing whether they'll happen, but what restrictions will be imposed upon us. Is any 'angling representative' actively engaged in fighting off these restrictions 100%? What is the official stance of the Angling Trust on all this?

 

 

That's the question I asked on the forum a few weeks ago. The same question that I sent to the Angling Trust shortly after, that went ignored - and the same question I eventually had to send direct to Mark Lloyd in order to get an answer.

 

The answer came from the Angling Trust's Marine Director and ex NFSA Chairman, Richard Ferre. From his reply, it seems the final decision, on whether to support the CEFAS data gathering excercise, will come once the options have been presented to the Marine Committee, (ex NFSA conservation group), and their recommendation put before the AT's main board of directors to make a final decision. Mr Ferre said in his reply that he would be recommending that the AT support the study by co-operating with Cefas.

DRUNK DRIVERS WRECK LIVES.

 

Don't drink and drive.

 

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