Should long shanked curved hooks be banned ?

[Simon Newbould]

Good points Chris.... although I thing Gaffer touched on it when he mentioned the "playing technique of the angler"

 

Simon

[OP-JB]

""I have seen this combination in use and the people using it are the hauling brigade, the fish do not stand a chance. ""

 

The fish aren't supposed to have a chance once hooked. What are the options? :confused:

[barblesss]

Hi all,

Gaffer, thanks for your views.

 

Gaffer:

Hi all,

 

 

Gaffer:

What to ban?

The Braid and 2.5 oz+ leads combo. is extremely damaging in my opinion. Heavy leads take any skill out of fishing anyway..whats the point? Does a 3 ounze lead cast further than a 2 ounze lead? I woudn't know. When playing the fish with a 3 ounze lead dangling down, it does alot of damage.

Braid and 2.5 pz leads damaging, how?....and how on earth can heavier leads take the skill out of angling?....and what damage?

 

Gaffer:

Barbless hooks just fall out on all but tight lines.

But a beginner wouldn't know exactly how much pressure to keep on a barbless hook and would perhaps pull a little too hard!?

 

Gaffer:

Greed and money rearing it's ugly head again, me thinks.

LOL! What a load of toffee!

When your playing a fish, if you have a heavy lead dangling down it will wobble from side to side, causing more more line to hook movement, which leads to more hook movement in the mouth. Cmon that's basic physics. Braid has a sharp texture, and it's material is more likely to do damage when rubbing against something.

 

Good point...but once these fish get snagged up, they must damage their mouths so badly trying to get free again. Their mouths must literally have to rip for them to come free. Especially with guys using 15IB line!! doh...some people fishing for sharks lol.

 

LOL! ..Cmon get real Gaffer! If the angler sees something in the tackle shop that he thinks will give him an advantage he will likely buy it!! You bought your series 5 because you thought it would help you catch a Carp....

Tackle manufactures with profit in mind and not fish safety.

I like Ron's comment and is my stance also:-

"Chris,

My general philosophy is that things should not be banned rather that we as anglers should take responsibility for our actions and stop using anything that causes problems. Unfortunately in the real world it doesn't quite work like that."

 

I think anglers, particularly those who fish for Carp like myself, need to take a step back sometimes and ask..'Are we overdoing it and becoming to greedy at the fish expense.'

 

[ 27 June 2002, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: barblesss ]

[Simon Newbould]

All very laudable barbless but the fact remains that in the years I've been using these hooks (coupled with 2 - 3 oz leads and 12lb line) I have yet to experience the problems you describe..

 

I have, however caught fish with old damage to their mouths... who's to say exactly what caused the damage? Can we be sure the damage was caused because at some time in it's life it was caught on a bent hook rig..? there are a lot of other possibilties here... most of them (all?) come down to the way a fish is played and treated once landed in my opinion...

 

Simon

[Steve Burke]

Firstly, I've no experience of these hooks myself. However, I've had no problems (so far) with damaged fish at Wingham, so they are allowed. BTW, I do ban bent hooks.

 

There's been considerable discussion on this thread about other items of tackle, with varying views expressed. IMO the key is balanced tackle.

 

Heavy leads may be needed to cast to extreme range. However it's surprising how often carp can be caught close in, even on pressured waters. It's just a question of not spooking the fish, which modern day carp anglers are very prone to do!

 

Heavy leads may also be needed to create a bolt effect as well. Some (barbless?) would say such self-hooking rigs are unsporting, and whilst I can appreciate such a viewpoint I've no intention of banning them unless they harm my fish. This I have no evidence for. Also bear in mind, even on a slack line when the fish can feel the weight of the hook, the weight is supported by the water. It's thus doesn't have the same effect as in air.

 

As far as rods go, if you use heavy leads for long distance work you need a rod capable of casting them. Such a rod need not be overly powerful in the butt - it all depends on its action.

 

In an independent field test the Orbiters I designed outcast all the long range rods they were up against but they have an unusually smooth, progressive action in the butt to allow them to also be used at close range. In fact, nearly all the carp I catch on my 13ft/3lb Orbiters are caught within 20 FEET of the bank!The latest AT8s, which are an updated version, are similar but will cast even further. Despite having heavy test curves these rods certainly do not damage the fish!

 

Once again it's a question of balanced tackle. Bear in mind also that the amount of pressure you can put on a fish depends on a lot of variables including how far away the fish is, the design of the hook, the amount of stretch in the line and its breaking strain, and the action and power of the rod.

 

If the tackle is out of balance, for instance a light rod in conjunction with a heavy line, you'll be unable to put much pressure on the fish regardless of the rest of the outfit.

 

And if you put too much pressure on the fish, even on a balanced outfit, the hook hold may give. I'm convinced this is more likely to happen with barbless hooks as they seem to have a tendency to move around in the mouth of the fish, thus creating more damage when playing it. For this reason I prefer my syndicate members, all of whom are experienced at unhooking fish, to use microbarbed hooks.

[Gaffer]

Barbless, I use 3.5lb tc, 12ft 6in, Greys PZ200's with 50lb PowerPro (Braid) for most of my fishing, whether near or far.

 

My rods are very 'tippy' and handle fish very well under the tip, in the margins. They have enough backbone to cast a 4.5oz lead over the 150yrd mark. (although I do the casting, not the rod!)

I've got two other sets of lighter rods, but prefer my PZ's.

 

In the 10 years or so of fishing just for Carp I've only ever had one hook-pull, and that was my fault in putting the landing net in an awkward place!

 

I use the Fox series 5's (Barbed) simply because they put more fish on the bank, so why, with the limited time that I get to fish, would I use a hook that won't hook fish nor get them to the bank???!!!! :confused:

Where does money come into it as they are just as comparative in terms of cost to most other makes of hook?!

 

I also use a leadcore leader which doesn't cause damage to the fish as/when it rubs along the flanks of the fish.

 

Right, that said (dunno why I'm defending myself! ), I'll say one more thing, perhaps a bit clearer...it's not the tackle that damages the fish, it's the angler!.....answer, simple, education.

[barblesss]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gaffer:

Barbless, I use 3.5lb tc, 12ft 6in, Greys PZ200's with 50lb PowerPro (Braid) for most of my fishing, whether near or far.

 

My rods are very 'tippy' and handle fish very well under the tip, in the margins. They have enough backbone to cast a 4.5oz lead over the 150yrd mark. (although

I

do the casting, not the rod!)

I've got two other sets of lighter rods, but prefer my PZ's.

---

I use a Silstar 2IB testcurve which is more 2.5-3IB in reality, a Harrison Multicarp 2IB which is more a quarter less, and a Daiwa Avon rod at 1/4 IB tc. The Silstar can bash a 2 oz lead a fair way to be fair.

 

quote:

---

In the 10 years or so of fishing just for Carp I've only ever had one hook-pull, and that was my fault in putting the landing net in an awkward place!

---

I had about 5 in one year when I first started fishing!

 

quote:

---

I use the Fox series 5's (Barbed) simply because they put more fish on the bank, so why, with the limited time that I get to fish, would I use a hook that won't hook fish nor get them to the bank???!!!! :confused:

---

Exactly, you woudn't! Read my post again carefully.

 

quote:

---

Where does money come into it as they are just as comparative in terms of cost to most other makes of hook?!

---

Money and greed as in Tackle companies want to make money and lots of it, irrelative wether the item is safe or unsafe to the fish. e.g Fox makes the series 5 'cause they know anglers will buy it..they make the money..safety is not an issue.

 

quote:

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I also use a leadcore leader which doesn't cause damage to the fish as/when it rubs along the flanks of the fish.

---

I just use Pro Gold line. 8 ib or 10ib for snaggy water. I have a spool with 12ib on, but never fished too close to a snag to use it.

 

quote:

---

Right, that said (dunno why I'm defending myself!

), I'll say one more thing, perhaps a bit clearer...it's not the tackle that damages the fish, it's the angler!.....answer, simple, education.

---

Whatwhy are you defending yourself from? You are entitled to your opinion and the way you fish.

 

Best regards, Danny.

[chris monkey]

Hi 2 everyone ...

 

Thanks for all the feedback on this one ... I knew it would be controversial ... that's why I posted it!! .. like I said .. It's good to think about your fishing ...

 

Gaffer .. you seem to be taking this a bit personally ... Barbless wasn't launching some sort of attack on you because u use the hook patterns ... like u said it is down to the angler ... I still think tackle is an important issue ...

 

After all, if it is all about 'Education' posts like these surely help to improve everyone's education?

[OP-JB]

"""In the 10 years or so of fishing just for Carp I've only ever had one hook-pull, and that was my fault in putting the landing net in an awkward place!"""

 

Gibbo tollerates 1% hook pulls. I have to live with 5% (1in 20), which for the fish I fish for is heart breaking (1 fish a year). What is your %? I want what youv'e got!! I need to see your rigs mate. :confused: In 25 years of carping I have had hundreds!

[Gaffer]

Naaah, I'm not takin' it personally, honest, I like a good debate.