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UK Bass Stocks Are Collapsing


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#31 wurzel

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 11:40 PM

You've lost me there; why would a commercial shoot 90mm nets in a Bass Nursery Area?
And what would he then do with the sizeable bass he catches??????

Hmmmmmmmmmm .... <_<



The point Sam is try to make is that nursery areas don't do much to protect small bass as commercial nets of 90 mm don't catch them any way this is why there seems to be just as many small bass in areas not designated as nursery areas as there is in areas that are.
It could be argued that it does protect those that are sizeable in the nursery for a while until they move out of the protected area.

Before you start babbling your hate waffle.
I agree 36 cm is still a juvenile bass and have petitioned for a minimum mesh size of 100 mm for the last 25 years that I've fished for bass commercially ,it would protect juvenile bass in a far greater area than a few estuaries and creeks.

Whether this would make much difference in the grand scheme of things I'm not sure, it would help increase the breeding stock but I wonder if the ecosystems of inshore grounds and estuaries would be able to support greater numbers of juvenile bass than we have already seen at times in resent years, so would a bigger breeding stock make a difference?
I doubt the offshore bass fishery has noticed a drop in catches and they probably won't for a few years yet as there are still some very good years recruitment to come into that fishery, despite what anglers say the breeding stock is still healthy enough to produce very large year classes of juvenile fish so something else has affected recruitment in the last few years and why it has effected the southern areas more than others I have no idea, perhaps the northern strain are a little hardier.
I still say there is a link with the cod having good recruitment and bass not, even though the reason for good cod recruitment has yet to bare fruit in the southern areas, baring in mind that the recent up turn of cod in the North sea came from a stock that was supposedly on the verge of extinction.
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#32 steve good

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 08:21 AM

The point Sam is try to make is that nursery areas don't do much to protect small bass as commercial nets of 90 mm don't catch them any way this is why there seems to be just as many small bass in areas not designated as nursery areas as there is in areas that are.
It could be argued that it does protect those that are sizeable in the nursery for a while until they move out of the protected area.

Before you start babbling your hate waffle.
I agree 36 cm is still a juvenile bass and have petitioned for a minimum mesh size of 100 mm for the last 25 years that I've fished for bass commercially ,it would protect juvenile bass in a far greater area than a few estuaries and creeks.

Whether this would make much difference in the grand scheme of things I'm not sure, it would help increase the breeding stock but I wonder if the ecosystems of inshore grounds and estuaries would be able to support greater numbers of juvenile bass than we have already seen at times in resent years, so would a bigger breeding stock make a difference?
I doubt the offshore bass fishery has noticed a drop in catches and they probably won't for a few years yet as there are still some very good years recruitment to come into that fishery, despite what anglers say the breeding stock is still healthy enough to produce very large year classes of juvenile fish so something else has affected recruitment in the last few years and why it has effected the southern areas more than others I have no idea, perhaps the northern strain are a little hardier.
I still say there is a link with the cod having good recruitment and bass not, even though the reason for good cod recruitment has yet to bare fruit in the southern areas, baring in mind that the recent up turn of cod in the North sea came from a stock that was supposedly on the verge of extinction.


Hi Peter

Aggregate dredging concerns have dredged away the habitat that supported the sandeels breeding area, we cannot catch many sandeels now and I think the bass in the south have moved east and north to find more food,

steve

#33 JRT

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 09:23 AM

And that is not as far from the truth as it may sound.


Do you have evidence that there is a move or even calls for no-bait areas Steve or is some more unfounded forum hearsay?

As for protection of bass stocks the obvious and sensible thing to do would be protect them whilst they spawn and then disperse, as well as ban pair trawling across the EU, not just within 12miles. Unfortunately despite being common sense this would require EU legislation and we all know that common-sense is rarely a factor in EU decision-making!

I find it bizarre that the inshore fleet, the area of the sector that supports more jobs and communities don't put pressure on the offshore fleet as they are are the ones doing most of the damage?

#34 wurzel

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 09:55 AM

Hi Peter

Aggregate dredging concerns have dredged away the habitat that supported the sandeels breeding area, we cannot catch many sandeels now and I think the bass in the south have moved east and north to find more food,

steve


Hello Steve

There might be a link between the lack of sand eels and movement of bass in your area but there are plenty of areas for sand eels to breed up here but not so many sand eels either, so is aggregate dredging to blame and what amount of dredging is carried out in the south west approaches to the channel?
I thought you said you were catching plenty of good sized bass on your forays into the channel ??
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#35 wurzel

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 10:14 AM

Do you have evidence that there is a move or even calls for no-bait areas Steve or is some more unfounded forum hearsay?

As for protection of bass stocks the obvious and sensible thing to do would be protect them whilst they spawn and then disperse, as well as ban pair trawling across the EU, not just within 12miles. Unfortunately despite being common sense this would require EU legislation and we all know that common-sense is rarely a factor in EU decision-making!

I find it bizarre that the inshore fleet, the area of the sector that supports more jobs and communities don't put pressure on the offshore fleet as they are are the ones doing most of the damage?


Hello JRT


First you have to prove that the offshore fleet is doing the damage claimed which is difficult with ICES being the lap dog of the EU commission who in turn don't like upsetting the French.
What has happened to the theory that the offshore pair trawling has little effect on UK's bass stock ?
Leon was constantly throwing up science to prove that point during the Bass Management Plan fiasco
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#36 Steve Coppolo

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 10:15 AM

You've lost me there; why would a commercial shoot 90mm nets in a Bass Nursery Area?


Commercial fishermen can, and do, shoot 90mm gill nets in bass nursery areas. Frequently.

That is, once you understand that a bass nursery area is an area that holds large numbers of juvenile bass and not an area that a few people have decided to call a nursery area. Once people get to grips with that fact they will see that, today, most of the Thames estuary, along with a lot of the British coastline, is now a bass nursery area.

Another fact that gets missed a lot is that bass nursery areas, even designated ones, don't just hold juvenile bass.
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#37 H.A.

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 07:55 PM

Before you start babbling your hate waffle.

- Wurz and Wurz :o
:kissing:


Aggregate dredging concerns have dredged away the habitat that supported the sandeels breeding area

- Steveg

I'd like to make a statement on behalf of the 'There's Plenty of Sandeels Around 'ere Party' -

There are so many sandeels around Hayling Island at the present time that you could walk to Havant on their backs!

:P

#38 glennk

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 09:07 AM

As with all these organisations who claim to represent sea anglers you just need to ask how many people actually join them. What are the membership numbers for B.A.S.S. and SACN ? and what percentage is that of UK sea anglers. Then ask how they have a right to try impose anything on the rest of you ? Seems to me, the same few names keep trying to tell the rest of us what to do.

Edited by glennk, 26 May 2008 - 09:10 AM.


#39 JRT

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 10:31 AM

Glenn, as you know most anglers are apathetic so any fishing organisation game/course or sea is poorly subscribed to compared to the numbers of anglers. Also who's trying to 'impose' anything on anybody? Most are just trying to fight for better stocks so we at least have a chance of more bigger fish. Most of the anglers I speak to understand that current fisheries policy only serves the fishing sector not fish stocks and want change. Poor government leadership combined with crazy EU politics and decades of complex bylaws has created a situation that fisheries policy is a farce and simply doesn't work. If you think change is not needed then your living in denial.

Edited by JRT, 26 May 2008 - 10:36 AM.


#40 thedogs

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 11:14 AM

Glenn, as you know most anglers are apathetic so any fishing organisation game/course or sea is poorly subscribed to compared to the numbers of anglers. Also who's trying to 'impose' anything on anybody? Most are just trying to fight for better stocks so we at least have a chance of more bigger fish. Most of the anglers I speak to understand that current fisheries policy only serves the fishing sector not fish stocks and want change. Poor government leadership combined with crazy EU politics and decades of complex bylaws has created a situation that fisheries policy is a farce and simply doesn't work. If you think change is not needed then your living in denial.



I am old enough to remember the so called good old days. A time when it wasnt uncommon to have more than one double figure bass on a charter boat in a day. A time when more than 50 bass over 6lb was common in a day. A time when I could catch thirty odd cod between 5lb and 15lb from the bow of my Dads boat a day.

But things aint that bad now, we have more bass than ever before the problem is they are to small to hold anglers interest. If you wish to catch a big double now its a life time campaign. But if managed better these small fish would grow.
The thornback fishing is equual to the good old days and sometimes better.I have heard very good report of good catches of better sized cod comming this winter just gone. The smoothound and tope fishing is also now very good. We are also seeing some good packs of large spur dogs more regularly than before.
The weather is more of a problem to myself than a lack of fish. What does worry me lots is that anglers will get rapped up in red tape and I will not be able to fish my favorite marks in the fucture.
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