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Fishermen Not Happy With The BBC


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#1 Elton

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 12:59 PM

http://www.fishnewse...-programme.html

I saw some of this programme and it was a bit 'odd' in the way it went about things. I didn't see it all, though.

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#2 Leon Roskilly

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 01:04 PM

I saw some of this programme and it was a bit 'odd' in the way it went about things. I didn't see it all, though.



In Iplayer at http://www.bbc.co.uk...ting_Food_Fish/

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#3 cleeclive

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 09:02 PM

In Iplayer at http://www.bbc.co.uk...ting_Food_Fish/

I can see why the NFFO and the SFF were wound up by this, but the truth always hurts and this programme got to the truth on a lot of issues. Ok the predictions that there will be no fish left in a few years were a bit one sided, but this was a programme about global fisheries and we are already seing stocks dissapearing.
Many of its messages have been portrayed in previos documentries and perhaps a little more seriously one example was a programme called ' Have Fish had their chips' about 20 years ago.

I am sorry fishermen's federations there was actually aboutr 90% truth in that programme so I don't wonder that you did not like it. Perhaps taking on board a more ethical approach about the levels of discarding, illegal attachments to nets and your decade of 'Black Fish landings' during the nineties over powered vessels and every other corrupt trick that you have been up to, and we might be able to take your complaint to the BBc seriously

Cleeclive (someone who knows the truth)!

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 09:48 PM

I can see why the NFFO and the SFF were wound up by this, but the truth always hurts and this programme got to the truth on a lot of issues. Ok the predictions that there will be no fish left in a few years were a bit one sided, but this was a programme about global fisheries and we are already seing stocks dissapearing.
Many of its messages have been portrayed in previos documentries and perhaps a little more seriously one example was a programme called ' Have Fish had their chips' about 20 years ago.

I am sorry fishermen's federations there was actually aboutr 90% truth in that programme so I don't wonder that you did not like it. Perhaps taking on board a more ethical approach about the levels of discarding, illegal attachments to nets and your decade of 'Black Fish landings' during the nineties over powered vessels and every other corrupt trick that you have been up to, and we might be able to take your complaint to the BBc seriously

Cleeclive (someone who knows the truth)!

Hi so if you know the truth the hole truth and nothing but the truth maybe you could inform the commercial fishermen throughout the world what percentage of commercial fishermen do you think partake on a regular basis in all the illegal activities that you so truthfully remind us goes on?
Could you also remind us of a single species of fish that has been wiped out by commercial fisherman and just to make it easy for you to Google ill let you use all the oceans on the planet. My god clenclive now where all sounding dramatic. BBC trawler man programme has been one of there biggest export programmes in recent years its viewing figures have been at an all time high series after series. The next one is in the making as wee speak. The British public love it, why do you think this is? Do you think that itís because (unlike you) they donít know the truth? donít try and patronise people who have spent years in the industry by saying that because we did nothing like you say wee where supposed to of done that we donít know the truth.
Regards.

#5 cleeclive

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 11:02 PM

Hi so if you know the truth the hole truth and nothing but the truth maybe you could inform the commercial fishermen throughout the world what percentage of commercial fishermen do you think partake on a regular basis in all the illegal activities that you so truthfully remind us goes on?
Could you also remind us of a single species of fish that has been wiped out by commercial fisherman and just to make it easy for you to Google ill let you use all the oceans on the planet. My god clenclive now where all sounding dramatic. BBC trawler man programme has been one of there biggest export programmes in recent years its viewing figures have been at an all time high series after series. The next one is in the making as wee speak. The British public love it, why do you think this is? Do you think that itís because (unlike you) they donít know the truth? donít try and patronise people who have spent years in the industry by saying that because we did nothing like you say wee where supposed to of done that we donít know the truth.
Regards.

Perhaps the fact that Hull and Grimsby Fishmerchants throughout the nineties made a fortune out of processing black fish, and the stock assessment scientists were building in assessments into their calculations that black fish landings were 40% over the official quotas. This is before we start dealing with discarding which is estimated to be on average 40% of a trawlers catch. Defra have had the figures for years but would not publish them for political reasons. Despite square mesh panels and other selectivity devices having been adopted little improvement in these figures have been made.
We have yet to find an accurate way of defining the power of a vessel that would stand up in a court of law, so the power of many vessels is on the plus side of what is recorded with the authorities. EU fisheries legislation as portrayed on the programme is unbelievably complex and this is because there was never a plan and it has all been based on finding solutions to problems as they arise i.e. crisis management, and the same takes place today within your organisation
On the question of dissapearing stocks, I think that the Newfoundland cod is a good example and as the programme stated Bluefin Tuna is in serious trouble. I did agree that some of the total gloom portrayed about dissapearing species may be over the top, but 90% of what was portrayed in the programme was factual. I accept that some within the industry are making improvements to the way they operate.
However it was only a year ago that the daily Telegraph published a video of a Scottish Vessel High Grading in the Norwegian sector, so there is still illegal activty going on. I admit that measures have been put in place that have significantly reduced Black Fish landings and the current legislation on traceability and fish passports further tighten up on this.However as someone said the other day with a Governent that cannot keep track of illegal immigrants coming into the country has little or no chance of keeping track of fish with or without a passport!

I rest my case, but I will go on if you so desire for a few more pages, because none of this is published on Google.

Cleeclive

#6 seafoods

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 11:23 PM

Perhaps the fact that Hull and Grimsby Fishmerchants throughout the nineties made a fortune out of processing black fish, and the stock assessment scientists were building in assessments into their calculations that black fish landings were 40% over the official quotas. This is before we start dealing with discarding which is estimated to be on average 40% of a trawlers catch. Defra have had the figures for years but would not publish them for political reasons. Despite square mesh panels and other selectivity devices having been adopted little improvement in these figures have been made.
We have yet to find an accurate way of defining the power of a vessel that would stand up in a court of law, so the power of many vessels is on the plus side of what is recorded with the authorities. EU fisheries legislation as portrayed on the programme is unbelievably complex and this is because there was never a plan and it has all been based on finding solutions to problems as they arise i.e. crisis management, and the same takes place today within your organisation
On the question of dissapearing stocks, I think that the Newfoundland cod is a good example and as the programme stated Bluefin Tuna is in serious trouble. I did agree that some of the total gloom portrayed about dissapearing species may be over the top, but 90% of what was portrayed in the programme was factual. I accept that some within the industry are making improvements to the way they operate.
However it was only a year ago that the daily Telegraph published a video of a Scottish Vessel High Grading in the Norwegian sector, so there is still illegal activty going on. I admit that measures have been put in place that have significantly reduced Black Fish landings and the current legislation on traceability and fish passports further tighten up on this.However as someone said the other day with a Governent that cannot keep track of illegal immigrants coming into the country has little or no chance of keeping track of fish with or without a passport!

I rest my case, but I will go on if you so desire for a few more pages, because none of this is published on Google.

Cleeclive


As a government agency DEFRA must publish information they have in an open manner.

The video published by the Telegraph did not show high grading. All fish caught in the Norwegian Sector must be retained on board under Norwegian law. Once the boat crossed back into Scottish waters they had no alternative but dump the fish as they had no quota for them to be landed in the UK.

The government do not keep track of fish the MFA do, they do not track illegal imigrants it is not their job.

High grading and black fish were issues caused by the CFP and the industry as a whole objected to them as much as anyone - and assisted with providing ideas to stop or reduce them.

#7 Jaffa

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 12:45 AM

Perhaps the fact that Hull and Grimsby Fishmerchants throughout the nineties made a fortune out of processing black fish, and the stock assessment scientists were building in assessments into their calculations that black fish landings were 40% over the official quotas. This is before we start dealing with discarding which is estimated to be on average 40% of a trawlers catch. Defra have had the figures for years but would not publish them for political reasons. Despite square mesh panels and other selectivity devices having been adopted little improvement in these figures have been made.
We have yet to find an accurate way of defining the power of a vessel that would stand up in a court of law, so the power of many vessels is on the plus side of what is recorded with the authorities. EU fisheries legislation as portrayed on the programme is unbelievably complex and this is because there was never a plan and it has all been based on finding solutions to problems as they arise i.e. crisis management, and the same takes place today within your organisation
On the question of dissapearing stocks, I think that the Newfoundland cod is a good example and as the programme stated Bluefin Tuna is in serious trouble. I did agree that some of the total gloom portrayed about dissapearing species may be over the top, but 90% of what was portrayed in the programme was factual. I accept that some within the industry are making improvements to the way they operate.
However it was only a year ago that the daily Telegraph published a video of a Scottish Vessel High Grading in the Norwegian sector, so there is still illegal activty going on. I admit that measures have been put in place that have significantly reduced Black Fish landings and the current legislation on traceability and fish passports further tighten up on this.However as someone said the other day with a Governent that cannot keep track of illegal immigrants coming into the country has little or no chance of keeping track of fish with or without a passport!

I rest my case, but I will go on if you so desire for a few more pages, because none of this is published on Google.

Cleeclive


Not sure if i should laugh or cry after reading that. brings back old memories of the madhouse ;) :)

So go on Clive, tell me what that video was about and why they were doing what they were doing?
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#8 cleeclive

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 08:09 AM

Not sure if i should laugh or cry after reading that. brings back old memories of the madhouse ;) :)

So go on Clive, tell me what that video was about and why they were doing what they were doing?

There seems to be quite a lot of denial going on here, but the facts were that throughout the 90s black fish landings from the UK fleet were at an astronomical level. As you say this was caused by the quota system within the CFP which did not take into account the economic requirements of running a vessel. The grant and loans schemes that had allowed skippers to build new vessels put many in a position where they had little option but to land black fish to survive and I have every sympathy with that situation. However there was another large element of skippers who lined their pockets during this period at the expense of the future of the industry. The level of fraud with in the Scottish pelagic sector was such that new vessels were being financed by non recorded landings being taken into Norway and finances being deposited in Norwegian bank acounts
the whole situation was an industry playing cat and mouse with the authorities.

Refering back to the Daily Telegraph video it showed the crew of a Scottish trawler dumping boxes of marketable fish over the rail. As weknow high grading is the dumping of a lower value fish and retaining the higher value part of the catch when the quota has been exceeded. I cannot imagine that these guys were dumping the fish that had just been caught if that would have got a better market price. Whether it was high grading or not, why catch it and dump it?

Many things are illegal but that does not mean that they do not happen, if the eyes of the law are not watching and profits are concerned, the rules will be broken. It has been happening all through the 35 years that I worked in the industry, and as most of that time I was involved in training the Fisheries Inspectorate I learnt quite a bit about what went on.

Iworked for 4 years for the Government of Oman and saw first hand the fradulent activities going on in the Korean and Taiwanese fleets that fished under licence in Omani waters. Ok government inspectors were aboard the vessels who were bribed to be a little blind to what was going on.

This is totally a global problem.

I also wonder what goes on within the French fleet that come annually to fish the yorkshire coast, they have a whiting quota I believe, not something the Government seems to shout about too much

Please keep firing the bullets, I am sure I can find some ammo to return as this is one of my pet topics

Have a good day

Cleeclive

#9 cleeclive

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 08:20 AM

As a government agency DEFRA must publish information they have in an open manner.

The video published by the Telegraph did not show high grading. All fish caught in the Norwegian Sector must be retained on board under Norwegian law. Once the boat crossed back into Scottish waters they had no alternative but dump the fish as they had no quota for them to be landed in the UK.

The government do not keep track of fish the MFA do, they do not track illegal imigrants it is not their job.

High grading and black fish were issues caused by the CFP and the industry as a whole objected to them as much as anyone - and assisted with providing ideas to stop or reduce them.


Very correct views Seafoods, we are talking Quangoes here, and Government Agencies, the facts appear to be just as we have too many boats chasing too few fish, we have too many Govenment Quangos and agencies making a lousy job of managing fisheries. This might well explain why it is in the total mess thatn it is in. I also appreciate that the CFP is largely to blame and that the EU is now predominately responsible for managing the UK, so we will always have someone else to blame.

Feel a bit like Victor Meldrew on this one it must be my age!!

#10 stevieg

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 09:56 AM

I am sorry fishermen's federations there was actually aboutr 90% truth in that programme so I don't wonder that you did not like it. Perhaps taking on board a more ethical approach about the levels of discarding, illegal attachments to nets and your decade of 'Black Fish landings' during the nineties over powered vessels and every other corrupt trick that you have been up to, and we might be able to take your complaint to the BBc seriously

Cleeclive (someone who knows the truth)!


Hello Clive
As someone who was not only on the inside of the "system" and obviously "knows the truth", but was also obviously pretty upset about all these naughty goings on, did you make much noise about it at the time, and if so did it make any difference, or were you completely ignored?

PS.. Victor Meldrew you ain't, I always find your posts both here and in the other place very informative....... :D