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Fishermen Not Happy With The BBC


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#11 wurzel

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 12:23 PM

On the question of dissapearing stocks, I think that the Newfoundland cod is a good example
Cleeclive


Hello Cleeclive

Are you absolutley sure the Newfoundland cod have dissapeared?

Attached Files


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#12 cleeclive

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 07:11 PM

Hello Clive
As someone who was not only on the inside of the "system" and obviously "knows the truth", but was also obviously pretty upset about all these naughty goings on, did you make much noise about it at the time, and if so did it make any difference, or were you completely ignored?

PS.. Victor Meldrew you ain't, I always find your posts both here and in the other place very informative....... :D

I have written numerous controversial letters in the Fishing News over the years and upset several of the Industry leaders with my comments, I have also been invited to London to discuss my views on North Sea cod stocks with senior civil servants as I was viewed as an unbiased voice from within the industry.

To answer your question I do not believe it made any real difference at all but it was always good to have another side to the story, and always gave people something to think about. It amuses me now how a few years after the Black Fish decade everyone is in total denial.

To answer Wurzel I am sure that there are still cod on the Grand Banks, and there is obviously a clear distinction between stock collaps and species extinction. It is apparent however that we can reach a point when real recovery does not appear to happen, possibly because the remaining stock is too small or something else replaces that stock. I have seen this many times fhen commercial fishing for eels, in that when we clean up in an area they never return, hence the current eel crisis.
As you know eco-systems are very complex and as a major predator is removed then a whole range of changes can take place which may well affect recovery. I am sure that fish are evolving species just as humans are and the survivors adapt in different ways to a changing environment

We still have much to learn just as the climate change brigade does!!

Cheers

Cleeclive

Bit of a hornets nest this one

#13 Leon Roskilly

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 07:18 PM

Bit of a hornets nest this one


http://www.theecolog...ounce_back.html

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#14 cleeclive

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 07:19 PM

Hello Cleeclive

Are you absolutley sure the Newfoundland cod have dissapeared?


Just read your attached file very interesting and positive news, and proves that we will always be learning with regards to fish stocks as with climate change, and it looks like they are closely linked.

Thanks for that.

Anyway what were your views on the Un-ethical fish programme, or are you playing politics on this one?

What is said in the wheelhouse or in the pub is often different to what is said in the public domain.

Cheers

Clive

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 07:49 PM

Hi. Cleeclive
Well why didn’t you tell me from the beginning that you where using the daily telegraph as one of your sources of information. The daily telegraph, the same newspaper who described so accurately the weapons of mass destruction that where about to be unleashed upon us on the eve of our invasion, or was it the 12 month politically correct coverage that they did on the miners strike that led to them having to make a public apology through the courts and numerous slander claims that came from the mining community in the wake of the press inquiry, of course they did apologise but the damage had been done 2 years previous. Or was it the remarkable story that they ran (along side of the sun) about the hillsbourgh disaster that ended with the sun taking all the flack and until this day hardly a copy is sold on Merseyside. Again they have got things wrong about the vessel that you mentioned. Still who are we to question as like you I suppose they go under the banner of truth.
You say that EU legislation is incredible complex and this is because there was never a plan? If the bureaucrats found it confusing and incredible complex how the hell did you expect the everyday fisherman to cope with it when all they had to cope with was being able to catch fish.
As seafood’s said High grading and black fish were issues caused by the CFP and the industry as a whole objected to them as much as anyone - and assisted with providing ideas to stop or reduce them.
Jaffa asked “So go on Clive, tell me what that video was about and why they were doing what they were doing?” again I believe seafood’s version of events rather than your daily telegraph fuelled opinion. Cleenclive I most certainly respect your knowledge of the fishing industry and your post I find interesting and informative to say the least, but there where and are a hell of a lot more honest commercial fishermen than what your opening post suggested.
Regards.
Wurzell
Quote Hello Cleeclive
“Are you absolutely sure the Newfoundland cod have disappeared?”
The daily telegraph most certainly is.
Regards.

#16 stevieg

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 08:42 PM

I have written numerous controversial letters in the Fishing News over the years and upset several of the Industry leaders with my comments, I have also been invited to London to discuss my views on North Sea cod stocks with senior civil servants as I was viewed as an unbiased voice from within the industry.

To answer your question I do not believe it made any real difference at all but it was always good to have another side to the story, and always gave people something to think about. It amuses me now how a few years after the Black Fish decade everyone is in total denial.


Hi Clive

I must have picked things up wrong somewhere along the line, I somehow assumed that you had been a public employee, either with DEFRA themselves or one of the Government research agencies or perhaps some other Government fish related agency. It was more did you make any noise to the leaders of these organizations I was meaning, but if you were not on the public payroll then the question is totally irrelevant.

I have spoken to a few people who were on the "inside" over the Black Fish years, and the one thing many had in common was a greater desire to protect their salaries and pension rights rather than to protect any fish stocks. I found it rather amusing that apparently one of the main DEFENCE witnesses in the famous McBride Black Fish case was one of the local FOs at the time of the offences, an interesting scenario indeed.

A strange thing the Black Fish time, you would hadly believe it could have gone on for so long without the complicity of those supposed to be stopping it. I too was knocking around at the time (not fishing for fish though), and I find it pretty incredible that the authorities could be either so gullible or be quite so blind......... :rolleyes:

I too used to be a fairly regular contributor to the letters page of FN a few years back, however due to far too frequent visits from certain people (usually on big grey boats) I became (with Tims agreement) Mr Name and Address witheld. I eventually gave up completely (for the time being), 5 or 6 hours of enforced down time every couple of weeks was becoming hazardous to my lack of wealth.

#17 cleeclive

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 09:46 PM

Hi. Cleeclive
Well why didn’t you tell me from the beginning that you where using the daily telegraph as one of your sources of information. The daily telegraph, the same newspaper who described so accurately the weapons of mass destruction that where about to be unleashed upon us on the eve of our invasion, or was it the 12 month politically correct coverage that they did on the miners strike that led to them having to make a public apology through the courts and numerous slander claims that came from the mining community in the wake of the press inquiry, of course they did apologise but the damage had been done 2 years previous. Or was it the remarkable story that they ran (along side of the sun) about the hillsbourgh disaster that ended with the sun taking all the flack and until this day hardly a copy is sold on Merseyside. Again they have got things wrong about the vessel that you mentioned. Still who are we to question as like you I suppose they go under the banner of truth.
You say that EU legislation is incredible complex and this is because there was never a plan? If the bureaucrats found it confusing and incredible complex how the hell did you expect the everyday fisherman to cope with it when all they had to cope with was being able to catch fish.
As seafood’s said High grading and black fish were issues caused by the CFP and the industry as a whole objected to them as much as anyone - and assisted with providing ideas to stop or reduce them.
Jaffa asked “So go on Clive, tell me what that video was about and why they were doing what they were doing?” again I believe seafood’s version of events rather than your daily telegraph fuelled opinion. Cleenclive I most certainly respect your knowledge of the fishing industry and your post I find interesting and informative to say the least, but there where and are a hell of a lot more honest commercial fishermen than what your opening post suggested.
Regards.
Wurzell
Quote Hello Cleeclive
“Are you absolutely sure the Newfoundland cod have disappeared?”
The daily telegraph most certainly is.
Regards.


I accept that some fishermen are totally honest and law abiding, but many that I have met have confessed to bending the rules, just because you don't manage to catch them does not mean that crimes are not committed. I am sure that there are not many if any of us that could honestly claim to have neverbroken a speed limit while driving a car.
Whilst you love yuoting your socialist politics at us so regularly I read an interesting article about all the new schools that you claim the labour party have funded for us . It appears that Gordon did not fund these schemes from the public purse but financed them through independent loan sharks thad school heads will be indebted to for around 30 years on extortionate interest rates, maybe not too many textbooks in the classrooms in years to come thanks to more underhanded socialist policy. I did of course read about this in a good Tory newspaper, so no doubt you will be deaf to these facts

Coming back to the fish situation or lack of it, there are few in the industry who when not playing their political cards will not confess to playing their part in the demise of fish stocks and are only too happy to admit that past practices were not the best approach that the industry took. These confessions of course come after a spell of blaming the Dutch, Spanish French and the CFP. A gentle reminder about their role in the Black Fish decade and a few other mis-demeanours usually leads to a full confession in the wheelhouse. I have never failed yet, although some customers have been more challenging than others.

You are proving an interesting and somewhat challenging case, and I am sure that your passion for all things Gordon is adding to the Challenge. Anyway I love the way you rise to the bait!!!! So easy to wind up.

#18 cleeclive

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 10:03 PM

I accept that some fishermen are totally honest and law abiding, but many that I have met have confessed to bending the rules, just because you don't manage to catch them does not mean that crimes are not committed. I am sure that there are not many if any of us that could honestly claim to have neverbroken a speed limit while driving a car.
Whilst you love yuoting your socialist politics at us so regularly I read an interesting article about all the new schools that you claim the labour party have funded for us . It appears that Gordon did not fund these schemes from the public purse but financed them through independent loan sharks thad school heads will be indebted to for around 30 years on extortionate interest rates, maybe not too many textbooks in the classrooms in years to come thanks to more underhanded socialist policy. I did of course read about this in a good Tory newspaper, so no doubt you will be deaf to these facts

Coming back to the fish situation or lack of it, there are few in the industry who when not playing their political cards will not confess to playing their part in the demise of fish stocks and are only too happy to admit that past practices were not the best approach that the industry took. These confessions of course come after a spell of blaming the Dutch, Spanish French and the CFP. A gentle reminder about their role in the Black Fish decade and a few other mis-demeanours usually leads to a full confession in the wheelhouse. I have never failed yet, although some customers have been more challenging than others.

You are proving an interesting and somewhat challenging case, and I am sure that your passion for all things Gordon is adding to the Challenge. Anyway I love the way you rise to the bait!!!! So easy to wind up.



Steve I was in Higher Education for most of my career, and also ran my own net making business, did a bit of commercial eel fishing and consultancy work. Through the nineties , still with the same employer. I did a lot of Fisheries consultancy work in Indonesia, India, Zambia, Zimbabwe and Malawi. I also managed several gear selectivity projects funded by MAFF and the EU dealing with discarding in brown shrimp fisheries and Nephrops fisheries. These studies eventually lead to the introduction of Veil vets in shrimp trawls. Finally I had 3.5 years working as an advisor to the Ministry of Fisheries in Oman.

It has been an interesting and varied career in the Industry and I was in the fortunate position to be able to voice my opinion and wind a few people up without any flack from my employers. I think that they gave up hope a long time back realising that they had a loose cannon on the books that could not give a ****.

Decided when I resigned from my post in Oman that history was repeating itself there, so came back and started a garden maintenance business. I don't really miss the madness of the fishing industry but enjoy doing a bit of **** stirring from my armchair in the winter when I have the time.

#19 stevieg

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 10:24 PM

Steve I was in Higher Education for most of my career, and also ran my own net making business, did a bit of commercial eel fishing and consultancy work. Through the nineties , still with the same employer. I did a lot of Fisheries consultancy work in Indonesia, India, Zambia, Zimbabwe and Malawi. I also managed several gear selectivity projects funded by MAFF and the EU dealing with discarding in brown shrimp fisheries and Nephrops fisheries. These studies eventually lead to the introduction of Veil vets in shrimp trawls. Finally I had 3.5 years working as an advisor to the Ministry of Fisheries in Oman.

It has been an interesting and varied career in the Industry and I was in the fortunate position to be able to voice my opinion and wind a few people up without any flack from my employers. I think that they gave up hope a long time back realising that they had a loose cannon on the books that could not give a ****.

Decided when I resigned from my post in Oman that history was repeating itself there, so came back and started a garden maintenance business. I don't really miss the madness of the fishing industry but enjoy doing a bit of **** stirring from my armchair in the winter when I have the time.


Pmsl....you sound like my kinda guy.... :lol:

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 11:02 PM

I accept that some fishermen are totally honest and law abiding, but many that I have met have confessed to bending the rules, just because you don't manage to catch them does not mean that crimes are not committed. I am sure that there are not many if any of us that could honestly claim to have neverbroken a speed limit while driving a car.
Whilst you love yuoting your socialist politics at us so regularly I read an interesting article about all the new schools that you claim the labour party have funded for us . It appears that Gordon did not fund these schemes from the public purse but financed them through independent loan sharks thad school heads will be indebted to for around 30 years on extortionate interest rates, maybe not too many textbooks in the classrooms in years to come thanks to more underhanded socialist policy. I did of course read about this in a good Tory newspaper, so no doubt you will be deaf to these facts

Coming back to the fish situation or lack of it, there are few in the industry who when not playing their political cards will not confess to playing their part in the demise of fish stocks and are only too happy to admit that past practices were not the best approach that the industry took. These confessions of course come after a spell of blaming the Dutch, Spanish French and the CFP. A gentle reminder about their role in the Black Fish decade and a few other mis-demeanours usually leads to a full confession in the wheelhouse. I have never failed yet, although some customers have been more challenging than others.

You are proving an interesting and somewhat challenging case, and I am sure that your passion for all things Gordon is adding to the Challenge. Anyway I love the way you rise to the bait!!!! So easy to wind up.

Well if it came from a Tory newspaper and it was about the labour government then it must be true.
I have always believed that people are innocent until proven guilty and therefore assumptions aren’t admissible and certainly not the assumptions taken from wheelhouse gossip columns and newspapers that aim in telling there selected readers just what they want to here.
As for you coming on AN for the enjoyment of winding people up till your weeds are ready to be sorted again is sad really clenclive because I think you have so much more to offer, I believe that the struggle to change things for the better is best served by a mix-and-match approach, taking different ideas from many different ideologies and experiences and not to just try and disprove other peoples experiences.
Still I wouldn’t miss your postings for the world and if you ever want to start another thread on your political ideologies I am sure that I and others would make it a worthwhile course for us all to type away the dark winter nights too. Barry and I had a bit of a political debate going on another thread and Barry did ask me to start another thread in relation to our discussion but thought it would fall flat.
My sister and her husband have run a landscape gardening business for many years now, is that the sort of guarding that you do clenclive? There very hard working and seam to love what they do, they also sleep very well, or so they keep telling me, but I have always put that down to there socialist ideologies rather than all the fresh air.
Regards.