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Fishermen Not Happy With The BBC


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#21 cleeclive

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 11:05 PM

Pmsl....you sound like my kinda guy.... :lol:

Hi Leon, an interesting read and what the scientists have been saying for a long time in principle, but when the politicians get involved it all goes belly up. As they say putting fishermen out of work does not win votes, and when the fish have run out it will be someone elses problem. I think that is how the system is supposed to work!

So long as there a few left for us anglers to get a feed that is all that worries me now. It is time for all these young eco scientists to sort it all out now, as I have spent my life teaching people how to murder fish through the years of plenty.

#22 wurzel

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 11:49 PM

Just read your attached file very interesting and positive news, and proves that we will always be learning with regards to fish stocks as with climate change, and it looks like they are closely linked.

Thanks for that.

Anyway what were your views on the Un-ethical fish programme, or are you playing politics on this one?

What is said in the wheelhouse or in the pub is often different to what is said in the public domain.

Cheers

Clive



Hello Clive

I wanted to get the Grand Bank issue out of the way first, once the moral high ground on over fishing is lost then every thing else claimed about fish stocks and fishing falls down like the house of cards that it is.
Over fishing is the second biggest lie after the causes of global warming and both support huge industries.

You claim 90% of the programme to be accurate, well based on the evidence of that and several other links plus my own experiences I don't think there was a single bit of it accurate it was total and utter crap.

Every thing you described was just a fishing industry fighting to survive and still is although most of the fight has been knocked out of it, it's just a mopping up exorcise now with the odd little skirmish and with my boat being under ten am now finding myself in exactly the same position as the bigger boats 10 years ago with the quota politically engineered to force as many as possible out of the job all on the basis of depleted fish stocks caused by over fishing I would like a pound for every time as you did the "Grand Banks" is used to justify their self-righteousness ambitions or in your case opinions, The EU Commission is using over fishing and their version of what happed at the Grand Banks not only as an axe for the UK fleet but also fuel for the gravy train, sea anglers will hear it next over fishing of depleted stocks and "We don't want the same happening here as happened on the grand banks " to justify bag limits and many other management tools.

I would be interested in your expert views on the North Sea cod stocks, I also have met with senior civil servants they didn't impress me much.
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#23 Jaffa

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 11:52 PM

T

Refering back to the Daily Telegraph video it showed the crew of a Scottish trawler dumping boxes of marketable fish over the rail. As weknow high grading is the dumping of a lower value fish and retaining the higher value part of the catch when the quota has been exceeded. I cannot imagine that these guys were dumping the fish that had just been caught if that would have got a better market price. Whether it was high grading or not, why catch it and dump it?

Cleeclive


I've cut back your war and peace length response to your paragraph about the question originally asked. Hope you don't mind ;) :)

My understanding is that this boat would be breaking the law by carrying that fish in UK waters because they had no quota for it but would also break Norwegian law if they had dumped it where they were fishing. Have i got it wrong?

I think i know what low and high grading are, but can't see what the Telegraphs Youtube "scoop" has to do with either?
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#24 Jaffa

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 12:00 AM

Hello Clive

I wanted to get the Grand Bank issue out of the way first, once the moral high ground on over fishing is lost then every thing else claimed about fish stocks and fishing falls down like the house of cards that it is.
Over fishing is the second biggest lie after the causes of global warming and both support huge industries.

You claim 90% of the programme to be accurate, well based on the evidence of that and several other links plus my own experiences I don't think there was a single bit of it accurate it was total and utter crap.

Every thing you described was just a fishing industry fighting to survive and still is although most of the fight has been knocked out of it, it's just a mopping up exorcise now with the odd little skirmish and with my boat being under ten am now finding myself in exactly the same position as the bigger boats 10 years ago with the quota politically engineered to force as many as possible out of the job all on the basis of depleted fish stocks caused by over fishing I would like a pound for every time as you did the "Grand Banks" is used to justify their self-righteousness ambitions or in your case opinions, The EU Commission is using over fishing and their version of what happed at the Grand Banks not only as an axe for the UK fleet but also fuel for the gravy train, sea anglers will hear it next over fishing of depleted stocks and "We don't want the same happening here as happened on the grand banks " to justify bag limits and many other management tools.

I would be interested in your expert views on the North Sea cod stocks, I also have met with senior civil servants they didn't impress me much.


Wurzel

I seem to remember reading that when quotas for the traditional Newfoundland fisheries were gradually opened back up again they were bought up by big American companies and the fishermen that gave up their right to fish to "save the stock" never got a look in . Clearly thats got to be me in a delusional dream state again. Any truth at all to that or was i having nightmares?
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#25 barry luxton

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 07:22 AM

Still I wouldn’t miss your postings for the world and if you ever want to start another thread on your political ideologies I am sure that I and others would make it a worthwhile course for us all to type away the dark winter nights too. Barry and I had a bit of a political debate going on another thread and Barry did ask me to start another thread in relation to our discussion but thought it would fall flat.

Fall flat, na. :) Where do you think some of this money being pumped into the nhs has come from, that the labour party makes political gain from, in particular these new hospitals in the recent past. Yup, private public partnerships. Now part of the public spending deficit thats going to take a few generations to pay back in interest. :mellow: Taxes 'r' us.

 Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.

 
New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.
 
Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.
 
Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.
 
new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.
 
Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because  they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are.. 


#26 cleeclive

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 08:04 AM

Fall flat, na. :) Where do you think some of this money being pumped into the nhs has come from, that the labour party makes political gain from, in particular these new hospitals in the recent past. Yup, private public partnerships. Now part of the public spending deficit thats going to take a few generations to pay back in interest. :mellow: Taxes 'r' us.


Jaffa, as I recall the telegraph scoop was around a year ago and I do not recall the specifics of what was legal to carry or dump where, I used it to demonstrate an ethical issue. "Why catch it and then Dump it"? and when someone comes back with an argument about the skipper not knowing how much he was going to catch in the last tow, legally log books should be kept up to date on a tow by tow basis so there is only a small argument for error, but no doubt he had a fantastic last haul!!!!

Good morning Wurzel, I wondered where you had been hiding. I don't think that this global problem of declining fish stocks is totally a government conspiracy, and whilst the science is far from exact, a walk down dock in Grimsby seems to tell a story to me. The missing North sea fleets of trawlers and pair trawlers, the 300 seiners from scrobs corner etc . I aint seen any of them for a few years now. I think we have 5 shrimp boats and 1 trawler. What happened in Lowestoft, the beamer fleet all gone. Lets pop over to Ostende, maybe 3 or 4 beamers left. So this conspiracy to demolish the fishing fleet, was so that all the fish were left in the Nort Sea to swim about on thir own was it, while we fill our fish fingers with Alaskan pollack etc. Sorry maybe the government has given it all to the French and Spanish to catch!!!

I think we need a reality check here, there is a serios problem with global fish stocks. I am not declaring total extinction as the programme proclaimed, but sustainably fishing we are not, wasting resource through discarding we are as the programme clearly demonstrated.

Politically crisis driven management we suffer from, and yes I agree anglers are going to get it in the neck now as the destruction of the fleets leaves scientists jobless. They are currently on the angling job creation scheme.

With costs of around 350 million a year (Imay stand correction here) to research and police fisheries it may well be more cost effective to destroy our fleets and have fish caught from a handfull af large vessels. However Gordons Government that seems to create a new publically funded quango to to sell health issues to MCZs for fisheries ,at the flip of a coin, would not appear to care how much of our taxes they waste so long as they keep people employed in useless jobs

#27 Jaffa

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 08:57 AM

Jaffa, as I recall the telegraph scoop was around a year ago and I do not recall the specifics of what was legal to carry or dump where, I used it to demonstrate an ethical issue. "Why catch it and then Dump it"? and when someone comes back with an argument about the skipper not knowing how much he was going to catch in the last tow, legally log books should be kept up to date on a tow by tow basis so there is only a small argument for error, but no doubt he had a fantastic last haul!!!!


Morning Clive. You used the example to "demonstrate an ethical issue" when you admit you don't actually know what was going on in that film?
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#28 wurzel

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 10:19 AM

Wurzel

I seem to remember reading that when quotas for the traditional Newfoundland fisheries were gradually opened back up again they were bought up by big American companies and the fishermen that gave up their right to fish to "save the stock" never got a look in . Clearly thats got to be me in a delusional dream state again. Any truth at all to that or was i having nightmares?


Hello Cris

Not delusional at all for I heard the same thing, the fishing rights are in the hands of football clubs and supermarket chains and much the same is happening here in the UK.
I fish to live and live to fish.

#29 wurzel

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 12:14 PM

Jaffa, as I recall the telegraph scoop was around a year ago and I do not recall the specifics of what was legal to carry or dump where, I used it to demonstrate an ethical issue. "Why catch it and then Dump it"? and when someone comes back with an argument about the skipper not knowing how much he was going to catch in the last tow, legally log books should be kept up to date on a tow by tow basis so there is only a small argument for error, but no doubt he had a fantastic last haul!!!!


Hello Clive

You clearly aren’t the expert you claim you are.

Quote
"Why catch it and then Dump it"?

What choice has the skipper got other than stay in dock which is no choice at all.

I am in the same situation, we have a sea full of cod but no quota for it but when I fish for sole I will catch cod, when I fish for bass I will catch cod, and will continue to do so until about July when the sea warms up enough to drive the cod off shore and then repeated again when the cod return in the autumn all will have to be dumped or landed illegally, I could lease some quota at about £1500 a ton which is the same as the average price I would get on the market so I could just keep the very best fish and hope to make a fiver a stone (same price as 30 years ago) on them but the rest would have to be dumped, I am also having the same problem with Ray at the moment My monthly quota has been cut from 10 tonne a month a couple of years ago to .5 of a tonne now but they say this month I can catch 1 ton of cod, a few years ago my quota was unlimited at this time of year, so while fishing for cod I will soon use up my ray quota and any over quota ray will have to be dumped. It's management gone mad.
Perhaps you could be so kind as to inform me with your vast experience of the fishing industry how to continue working with out having to dump fish and stay with in the law.
I fish to live and live to fish.

#30 big_cod

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 01:03 PM

Under 10ss are by far very badly treated long line fishing should be encouraged with more quota or something on those lines discards are near on zero but the north sea is still way down on cod to what it was 10 years ago and that is due to over fishing which ever way you look at it unfortunatly trawling has its took its toll just as it did on the grand banks it was hammered in 80s and 90ss unfortunatly it couldnt take what was thrown at it and had to give and it did it needs a rest or everybody is up the **** creek you cant keep ploughing the land day after day eventually it destroys it.

paul.

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