Fishermen Not Happy With The BBC

[Jaffa]

Hello Cris

 

Not delusional at all for I heard the same thing, the fishing rights are in the hands of football clubs and supermarket chains and much the same is happening here in the UK.

 

Ta Wurzel,

 

But i wish you had just said im a sad delusional idiot and nothing of the kind had happened..

 

Hopefully Leon will be along with a plaster soon.

[Guest challenge]

Fall flat, na. Where do you think some of this money being pumped into the nhs has come from, that the labour party makes political gain from, in particular these new hospitals in the recent past. Yup, private public partnerships. Now part of the public spending deficit thats going to take a few generations to pay back in interest. Taxes 'r' us.

And where did the NHS come from? It’s so popular that even the Americans have adopted it.

Ironically it was within Thatcher’s rain of terror that most of the private company’s got there foot in the door and the desegregation of so many of the amenities that have since been struggling to get back on the strait and narrow.

Remember that the NHS split the labour movement back in the 50,s because the labour government of the day was so hard up trying to clear the national dept created at the time by the Americans demanding the repayments of war aide that they had borrowed Britain back in the days prior to pearl harbour. The labour party was split because it meant an end to free classes and dentistry for all.

Regards.

[barry luxton]

Remember that the NHS split the labour movement back in the 50,s because the labour government of the day was so hard up trying to clear the national dept created at the time by the Americans demanding the repayments of war aide that they had borrowed Britain back in the days prior to pearl harbour. The labour party was split because it meant an end to free classes and dentistry for all.

Regards.

 

 

It was during maggies reign that the debt to the US was finally paid off, however this government has been party to the biggest amount of public sector borrowing on record. Don't want to get into the whyfores and whofors as we done that last time. So i can't wait for the cuts that will have to happen, other than that put up taxes, na already pay enough, especially to keep all these quango guys in jobs and pensions.

 

NHS dentistry, hummmmm, paid a guy 8k privatly to put right what i had done through the NHS, money well spent as far as i'm concerned.

[wurzel]

Under 10ss are by far very badly treated long line fishing should be encouraged with more quota or something on those lines discards are near on zero but the north sea is still way down on cod to what it was 10 years ago and that is due to over fishing which ever way you look at it unfortunatly trawling has its took its toll just as it did on the grand banks it was hammered in 80s and 90ss unfortunatly it couldnt take what was thrown at it and had to give and it did it needs a rest or everybody is up the **** creek you cant keep ploughing the land day after day eventually it destroys it.

 

paul.

 

Hello Paul

 

The North sea is much bigger than Whitby and wheres your evidence that it was trawlers what done in the Grand Banks.

 

I would say there is twenty times the cod than 10 years ago and will increace ten fold again next year.

[cleeclive]

Under 10ss are by far very badly treated long line fishing should be encouraged with more quota or something on those lines discards are near on zero but the north sea is still way down on cod to what it was 10 years ago and that is due to over fishing which ever way you look at it unfortunatly trawling has its took its toll just as it did on the grand banks it was hammered in 80s and 90ss unfortunatly it couldnt take what was thrown at it and had to give and it did it needs a rest or everybody is up the **** creek you cant keep ploughing the land day after day eventually it destroys it.

 

paul.

Wurzel

I hear what you are saying there loud and clear and I appreciate that it is almost impossible to stay within the law and survive ecenomically. I have said for long enough that those fishermen in the late 80s who had been encouraged to re-invest in new vessels and put themselves in significant debt had the rug pulled from under their feet with the introduction of quotas that would have forced them into bancrupcy if they were not landing black fish. However there were those that did not need to land black but enjoyed the extra profit at the expense of fish.

One of the major failings of the system is that fisheries economics is a relatively new field and most of the work that has been undertaken involved whole fleets and very complex economic modeling. What has always been missing is what i call housekeeping economics which should have been undertaken to look at the impact of legislation change on different classes of vessel. During my time of working closely with research scientists this was never given any priority and it definitely should have been. It affects impact opon every class of vessel and hence the crazy situation you describe. We did infact undertake a bio-economic impact study on the shrimp beam trawl discards of juvenile plaice and sole. From starting of with millions of '0' and '1' group flatties being discarded whic sounded horrific, the situation changed significantly when you took into account natural mortality of juveniles and the fishing mortality on 2 year olds by the beamer fleets. From what I recall the introduction of Veil nets into shrimp trawls should of produced enough quota for a few extra beamers. However there is a lot of very in-precise estimates in these calculations.

 

I know I appear to have come down somewhat hard on the catchers in my arguments and perhaps unfairly as the management has been the cause of many of the problems. Regrettably this is what you get when you try to manage a fishery on the basis of solutions to problems as they arise (Crisis management)

 

Regrettably the government is aware that the fishing industry has the turnover of a car plant and they have been happy to see plenty of them go to the wall. car plants don't cost 10% of their turnover to research and police either, so one can only expect more of the same in the future.

[wurzel]

Good morning Wurzel, I wondered where you had been hiding. I don't think that this global problem of declining fish stocks is totally a government conspiracy, and whilst the science is far from exact, a walk down dock in Grimsby seems to tell a story to me. The missing North sea fleets of trawlers and pair trawlers, the 300 seiners from scrobs corner etc . I aint seen any of them for a few years now. I think we have 5 shrimp boats and 1 trawler. What happened in Lowestoft, the beamer fleet all gone. Lets pop over to Ostende, maybe 3 or 4 beamers left. So this conspiracy to demolish the fishing fleet, was so that all the fish were left in the Nort Sea to swim about on thir own was it, while we fill our fish fingers with Alaskan pollack etc. Sorry maybe the government has given it all to the French and Spanish to catch!!!

 

I think we need a reality check here, there is a serios problem with global fish stocks. I am not declaring total extinction as the programme proclaimed, but sustainably fishing we are not, wasting resource through discarding we are as the programme clearly demonstrated.

 

Hello Clive

I don't know much about global fish stocks only local fish stocks and despite constantly being told that the stocks I fish for are in serious decline, I have in 30 years not witnessed any such problem of declining fish stocks in fact quite the opposite, with the amount of celebrity anglers rushing around the globe catching top predators where ever they go, even Robson Green who handles a rod like a chimp does a musket manages to catch some fine fish where ever he goes plus several nature documentaries narrated by David Attenbough showing huge aggregations of not only prey but also predator fish, along with evidence that there is as much cod on the grand banks now as there ever was I treat any claims that global stocks are in trouble with suspicion and if it is made by any NGO I dismiss it as rubbish.

Perhaps you have a depleted local stock in mind that we could discuss.

 

The lack of fishing boats in the Uk harbours are not a sign of depleted stocks only a sign of neglect from a unsympathetic government who sold out to the EU. You must have visited Ostend when the fleet was at sea the main port is Zebrugge, considering Belgium has only 35 miles of coast line it has a good sized fleet of mostly beamers, you forgot to mention Holland who have a very large fleet of beamers that work the North sea a much bigger fleet than Lowestoft and Grimsby had put together birthed just 90 miles east of Lowestoft.

Half the Lowestoft beamer fleet were decommissioned the other half along with all the quota was bought up by Dutch owners to work as what is called flag ships which means they are Dutch owned but work on UK quota.

 

Being under ten meters my quota is managed by the government all other UK quota is in the hands of a lucky few.

The government is under the gaze of the EU commission and is defiantly looking to drastically cull the inshore fleet.

The government used to say " we must match the fleet to the available stocks" now they say "we must match the fleet to the available fishing opportunities" and the opportunities are very small.

 

Your remark" Sorry maybe the government has given it all to the French and Spanish to catch!!! "

Is closer to the truth than you may think, Spain is pushing hard to gain access in to the North Sea under the EU's " access to a common resource" directive and will get it sooner or later perhaps they are making room for them.

If France treated their fishermen like our government have treated us the country would have been brought to a standstill.

 

I agree there is a lot of waste in some fisheries, I remember reading about the reducing of discards with square meshes over 20 years ago and thinking that’s a good idea and it is still not much more than an idea . Why?

 

Off to sea for a couple of days I’ll reply to your reply when I get back.

[wurzel]

Wurzel

However there is a lot of very in-precise estimates in these calculations.

 

Hello Clive

 

I tottally agree with you on that as there is in any stock estimates.

[Leon Roskilly]

The government is under the gaze of the EU commission and is defiantly looking to drastically cull the inshore fleet.

 

 

Proposals:

 

http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/fisheries...proposition.pdf

 

 

More Information:

 

http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/fisheries...man/saif.htm

 

 

Online SAIF Community (Forum and Papers - Registration Required):

 

http://www.communities.idea.gov.uk/c/1631070/home.do

Edited February 3, 2010 by Leon Roskilly

[cleeclive]

Proposals:

 

http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/fisheries...proposition.pdf

 

 

More Information:

 

http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/fisheries...man/saif.htm

 

 

Online SAIF Community (Forum and Papers - Registration Required):

 

http://www.communities.idea.gov.uk/c/1631070/home.do

Thanks for that Leon, the Inshore sector definitely needs reform and lots of fine words in the documents. The first big worry is the number of stakeholders and quangos that are involved. The more cooks stirring the broth the bigger the disaster it will be I guess! I am not going to have any great expectations that the inshore sector will end up with a more sensible management regime at the end of it all.

It will be interesting to hear Wurzel's views on this.

[cleeclive]

Under 10ss are by far very badly treated long line fishing should be encouraged with more quota or something on those lines discards are near on zero but the north sea is still way down on cod to what it was 10 years ago and that is due to over fishing which ever way you look at it unfortunatly trawling has its took its toll just as it did on the grand banks it was hammered in 80s and 90ss unfortunatly it couldnt take what was thrown at it and had to give and it did it needs a rest or everybody is up the **** creek you cant keep ploughing the land day after day eventually it destroys it.

 

paul.

Jaffa, I have just had a look at that film of the Prelude again The film claimed she dumped around 80% of her catch and it was filmed by the Norwegian Coastguard. The captions claim as you say that it was over quota fish that had been caught but then go on to say that some claim it was possible high grading. I did not hear of any other analysis of what was actually happening although I am sure that there have been plenty of views on it from varios people.

 

If it was 80% of the catch, one should ask the question why catch it to dump it. However that may well have been journalistic licence to sensationalise a point

 

Cheers

 

Clive