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Fishermen Not Happy With The BBC


Elton

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Jaffa, I have just had a look at that film of the Prelude again The film claimed she dumped around 80% of her catch and it was filmed by the Norwegian Coastguard. The captions claim as you say that it was over quota fish that had been caught but then go on to say that some claim it was possible high grading. I did not hear of any other analysis of what was actually happening although I am sure that there have been plenty of views on it from varios people.

 

If it was 80% of the catch, one should ask the question why catch it to dump it. However that may well have been journalistic licence to sensationalise a point

 

Cheers

 

Clive

It was as I spoke to somebody that was aboard, perhaps your first post on the mater would have been more acceptable had you not tried to patronise us all by stating that you know the truth, when quite clearly you don’t.

Regards.

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If it was 80% of the catch, one should ask the question why catch it to dump it. However that may well have been journalistic licence to sensationalise a point

 

Cheers

 

Clive

 

Hi Clive

 

An interesting question indeed. I am curious, were you ever involved at some career point in top secret research which could tell you almost exactly what was entering the cod end as you went along in a mixed fishery? I know that there is selectivity to an extent, but precise species selectivity in a mixed whitefish fishery must be the ultimate holy grail in UK fisheries research, unfortunately one which as far as I am aware has not even nearly been achieved. To the best of my limited knowledge, they still have no real idea what is coming until the bag breaks the surface, as imho would have been the case here.........but as always I am all ears.......:rolleyes:

 

I was having a chuckle and a half at your post on Glenns forum regarding this thread........ :lol:

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Jaffa, I have just had a look at that film of the Prelude again The film claimed she dumped around 80% of her catch and it was filmed by the Norwegian Coastguard. The captions claim as you say that it was over quota fish that had been caught but then go on to say that some claim it was possible high grading. I did not hear of any other analysis of what was actually happening although I am sure that there have been plenty of views on it from varios people.

 

If it was 80% of the catch, one should ask the question why catch it to dump it. However that may well have been journalistic licence to sensationalise a point

 

Cheers

 

Clive

 

Hi Clive,

 

Why indeed did that boat dump 80% of her catch in full view of a Norwegian Coastguard vessel? Dunno about your experince but in mine the Norwegian coastguard don't muck about and will take take a wrongdoer directly to a Norwegian court at gunpoint if they thought their law had been broken. They do not muck about when it comes to fisheries.

 

But they didnt do that in this case.

 

Im not sure what was going on in that film. Any chance you can tease it out and figure it?

 

Chris

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Hi Clive

 

An interesting question indeed. I am curious, were you ever involved at some career point in top secret research which could tell you almost exactly what was entering the cod end as you went along in a mixed fishery? I know that there is selectivity to an extent, but precise species selectivity in a mixed whitefish fishery must be the ultimate holy grail in UK fisheries research, unfortunately one which as far as I am aware has not even nearly been achieved. To the best of my limited knowledge, they still have no real idea what is coming until the bag breaks the surface, as imho would have been the case here.........but as always I am all ears.......:rolleyes:

 

I was having a chuckle and a half at your post on Glenns forum regarding this thread........ :lol:

 

I have been involved with a fair bit of work with remote vehicles and cameras to try and observe what is happening with selectivity devices and how fish react to them. We know quite crearly from Dr Clem Wardle's work that whiting and haddock try to escape from the top of the trawl hence the use of square mesh pannels in the upper section. Cod do not obey those rules and tend to hug the ground. Flatties would appear to try to escape anywhere. However saying all of this the positioning of any selectivity device can be severely affected by what is happening in the codend in front of the bag of fish in terms of turbulent water flow which is an ever changing phenomenon depending upon tow speed ,tidal direction, sea state, catch rate, type of selectivity device fitted etc. This complex set of variables all interacting creates a situation where a selectivity device will work for some species some of the time, but may be different in different conditions.

 

Stock assessment scientists see selectivity as too variable and feel that effort reduction, through quota, days at sea, closed areas etc as a far more reliable management tool.

 

The variations in the success of selectivity experiments has been clearly demonstrated to me in the various multi-partner EU projects that I have worked within.

 

Ultimate selectivity in a multi-species trawl fishery is an impossible dream. Whilst in Oman I did some work with Sultan Quaboos University, and the problems faced with the catch mix in a tropical trawl fishery were 10 times worse.

 

Anyway it all keeps the scientific gravy train rolling onwards and I had ten years of fun playing around in the field. The one success story that we did have was the introduction of veil nets into shrimp (Crangon crango) trawls, but that was after 10 years of multipartner research These net cones within the trawl reduce the bycatch of '0' and '1' groups by about 40%, but many fishermen will adapt them so that they still catch the dovers to sell on the black market as a bit of stocker money.

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It was as I spoke to somebody that was aboard, perhaps your first post on the mater would have been more acceptable had you not tried to patronise us all by stating that you know the truth, when quite clearly you don’t.

Regards.

Sorry Challenge , I just believed a journalist like you often do when you preach your politics to us!!! (Schools and Hospitals wasn't it funded by Gordon)

Cheers

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Hello Clive

As someone who was not only on the inside of the "system" and obviously "knows the truth", but was also obviously pretty upset about all these naughty goings on, did you make much noise about it at the time, and if so did it make any difference, or were you completely ignored?

 

PS.. Victor Meldrew you ain't, I always find your posts both here and in the other place very informative....... :D

 

 

cline you have my full support in this matter,the commercials cant see the wood for the trees,

as i have siad on other forums ,its no good screaming about it when its all gone,

the fishing industry is in decline and it is down to themselves for thinking the sea is a bottomless pit of fish.

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I have been involved with a fair bit of work with remote vehicles and cameras to try and observe what is happening with selectivity devices and how fish react to them. We know quite crearly from Dr Clem Wardle's work that whiting and haddock try to escape from the top of the trawl hence the use of square mesh pannels in the upper section. Cod do not obey those rules and tend to hug the ground. Flatties would appear to try to escape anywhere. However saying all of this the positioning of any selectivity device can be severely affected by what is happening in the codend in front of the bag of fish in terms of turbulent water flow which is an ever changing phenomenon depending upon tow speed ,tidal direction, sea state, catch rate, type of selectivity device fitted etc. This complex set of variables all interacting creates a situation where a selectivity device will work for some species some of the time, but may be different in different conditions.

 

Stock assessment scientists see selectivity as too variable and feel that effort reduction, through quota, days at sea, closed areas etc as a far more reliable management tool.

 

The variations in the success of selectivity experiments has been clearly demonstrated to me in the various multi-partner EU projects that I have worked within.

 

Ultimate selectivity in a multi-species trawl fishery is an impossible dream. Whilst in Oman I did some work with Sultan Quaboos University, and the problems faced with the catch mix in a tropical trawl fishery were 10 times worse.

 

Anyway it all keeps the scientific gravy train rolling onwards and I had ten years of fun playing around in the field. The one success story that we did have was the introduction of veil nets into shrimp (Crangon crango) trawls, but that was after 10 years of multipartner research These net cones within the trawl reduce the bycatch of '0' and '1' groups by about 40%, but many fishermen will adapt them so that they still catch the dovers to sell on the black market as a bit of stocker money.

 

Thanks Clive, a very interesting and informative post as usual. Pretty much as I suspected, they still have the age old problem of not really having a clue what they have caught, right up until it is too late in some respects anyway........ :mellow:

 

I know these guys always get hammered in certain quarters, but I always have a bit of sympathy for someone who spends 5 or 6 hours of valuable time and effort, at say £100 an hour for a boat of that class, only to have to dump much/most of the very sellable product of their efforts, because research and politics say that the fish they have caught should not even exist........:rolleyes:

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Being under ten meters my quota is managed by the government all other UK quota is in the hands of a lucky few.

 

The government is under the gaze of the EU commission and is defiantly looking to drastically cull the inshore fleet.

 

The government used to say " we must match the fleet to the available stocks" now they say "we must match the fleet to the available fishing opportunities" and the opportunities are very small

 

Yesterday in Parliament:

 

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=...%3A11727#g440.0

 

Richard Benyon (- Shadow Minister, Environment, Food and Rural Affairs; Newbury, Conservative)

 

There is a widespread view around coastal communities that if people disagree with the Minister's Department, they get cut out of negotiations on important issues. I was contacted just today by the Thanet Fishermen's Association, which has been waiting since the beginning of last November for a reply on the transfer of unused quotas. Will the Minister give the fishing community and other organisations interested in CFP reform the firm assurance that they will be involved in negotiations on this important matter, even if they disagree with his Department's stance?

 

 

Huw Irranca-Davies (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Marine and Natural Environment), Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs; Ogmore, Labour)

 

Yes, absolutely, but that is not to say that we will always agree. In fact, fishermen often accuse me of over-consulting and over-engagement, which can make it difficult for them to get to meetings and to engage with these matters. I guarantee that we will do as the hon. Gentleman asks, but that does not mean that we should walk away from the difficult decisions on moving from where we are now to achieving a long-term sustainable future. I know that, in his heart of hearts, he agrees with that.

RNLI Shoreline Member

Member of the Angling Trust

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Guest challenge

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Peter have you been smokeing something. :)

 

paul.

Paul

What I think he is trying to tell you Paul (if you where to read his post again) was that you cannot take one small area of the North Sea and say that because there is no fish (or very little compared with other years) that there is very little fish anywhere else. The chieftain has proved that time and time again because he travels in excess of 150 miles in most seaward directions rather than just sticking to the local grounds with some marvellous results. Also I believe that there has been some fantastic shore fishing north of Sunderland again this winter with bag’s of 30lb plus being regular and have seen many cod landed over 20lb from the shore there this winter. Barry was saying that down south anglers have also had a decent winter. So I don’t think that he is smoking anything Paul just reporting from beyond the haze.

Regards.

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