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Petition to save coastguard stations


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#21 Bob Shotter

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 07:40 PM

Signed , As a Whitby lifeboat crew member its a disaster as its going to make our job that much harder as we will be receiving information from some one who don't no the area or present conditions .

Thats a statement off one of the crew members off whitby lifeboat are all these people wrong.

http://www.whitbysea...p?topic=19059.0

paul.


In a nutshell YES

How can nineteen seventyís equipment be compared to what is available today for goodness sake, a fragmented out of date service is far more dangerous to life than what is planed and it will be tried and tested before being put into operation so stop worrying and scaremongering.

Tight Lines Bob
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#22 seafoods

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 09:55 PM

Hold on there Seafoods,

Hold on there Seafoods,

Lets not start the petty personnel jibes .

After giving it some thought and being some one who has hade the aid of a life boat at least three times in my time as a commercial fisherman, I have to agree with Bob I donít see how much will change with real life threatening emergencies , they are not doing away with any of the local run life boats who at the end of the day will receive the same information as before and will evaluate that information based on their local knowledge , the same goes for helicopters , at the end of the day so long as your MAY DAY is received no matter where you are and that information is processed with promptly and efficiently where is the problem?
At the end of the day itís technical creep and the down side of technical creep is jobs will be lost ,it happens in all walks of life always has and always will .30 years ago there was a manned coast guard station about every 25 miles along the coast now with modern technology they are 70 or 80 miles apart some further, so what will change if they are 200 miles apart ?
Perhaps you could explain or give an example as a coast guard where a problem might arise.



Hi Wurzel, you reckon that the local run lifeboats will receive the same information - this is not what lifeboatmen and volunteer coastguards believe. Folk in a panic often revert to local names for places when shouting for help. If someone shouts a mayday at the moment and says they are sinking at portyerrock the watch officer in the MRCC at Liverpool knows where that is, knows which volunteer coastguard team to task and knows which lifeboat - be that RNLI or one of the many local charity ones - to request. The operations room staff in the current MRCC's do lots of visits to the various sectors in their patch, they get local volunteer coastguards to show them round and explain things like local names to them. If the proposed changes are made there will be two, not the three being reported, 24 hour stations to co-ordinate rescues during darkness hours. A watch officer in Aberdeen will have absolutely no chance of being familiar with local dialects and local place names for all of the area they are co-ordinating. They will be expected to co-ordinate rescues from northwest England, southern Scotland, Northern Ireland, the western isles, Orkney, Shetland, the whole east coast of Scotland and northeast England. They won't have a clue where portyerrock is and major delays will happen while they try to find out which area they are talking about - then they will have to check which coastguard teams, lifeboats etc are in that area before tasking the correct ones. I, and many others involved with maritime SAR, just can't see this working.

#23 wurzel

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 11:52 PM

Hi Wurzel, you reckon that the local run lifeboats will receive the same information - this is not what lifeboatmen and volunteer coastguards believe. Folk in a panic often revert to local names for places when shouting for help. If someone shouts a mayday at the moment and says they are sinking at portyerrock the watch officer in the MRCC at Liverpool knows where that is, knows which volunteer coastguard team to task and knows which lifeboat - be that RNLI or one of the many local charity ones - to request. The operations room staff in the current MRCC's do lots of visits to the various sectors in their patch, they get local volunteer coastguards to show them round and explain things like local names to them. If the proposed changes are made there will be two, not the three being reported, 24 hour stations to co-ordinate rescues during darkness hours. A watch officer in Aberdeen will have absolutely no chance of being familiar with local dialects and local place names for all of the area they are co-ordinating. They will be expected to co-ordinate rescues from northwest England, southern Scotland, Northern Ireland, the western isles, Orkney, Shetland, the whole east coast of Scotland and northeast England. They won't have a clue where portyerrock is and major delays will happen while they try to find out which area they are talking about - then they will have to check which coastguard teams, lifeboats etc are in that area before tasking the correct ones. I, and many others involved with maritime SAR, just can't see this working.


Hello Seafoods

When Digital Selective Calling (DSC) becomes compulsory which it will soon, you will not call mayday just flip a switch and your position, plus description of boat and any other information previously provided by the radio owner will automatically be shown to the rescue coordinator where ever that might be, at the moment it is possible to get a fix just by keying the mike so it doesnít much matter what is screamed over the radio. As for Paulís concern about knowing local conditions it's possible for me to look at local conditions any where in the UK in a matter of minuets on my computer so I can't see a problem there, any way it's up to the life boat men to assess local conditions what ever that means or makes any difference.
I fish to live and live to fish.

#24 big_cod

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 05:17 AM

Hello Seafoods

When Digital Selective Calling (DSC) becomes compulsory which it will soon, you will not call mayday just flip a switch and your position, plus description of boat and any other information previously provided by the radio owner will automatically be shown to the rescue coordinator where ever that might be, at the moment it is possible to get a fix just by keying the mike so it doesnít much matter what is screamed over the radio. As for Paulís concern about knowing local conditions it's possible for me to look at local conditions any where in the UK in a matter of minuets on my computer so I can't see a problem there, any way it's up to the life boat men to assess local conditions what ever that means or makes any difference.


Local is what you need tory dogma cuts ,cuts why dont they sell the whole country off it has allways been the tory way .

The government has postponed an announcement about the sell-off of the UK's search and rescue helicopters.



http://www.bbc.co.uk...otland-12008752

Downright dangerous.

paul.

Edited by big_cod, 23 December 2010 - 05:21 AM.

http://sea-otter2.co.uk/

Probably Whitby's most consistent charterboat

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#25 wurzel

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 09:29 AM

Local is what you need tory dogma cuts ,cuts why dont they sell the whole country off it has allways been the tory way .

The government has postponed an announcement about the sell-off of the UK's search and rescue helicopters.



http://www.bbc.co.uk...otland-12008752

Downright dangerous.

paul.


So Paul you think Labour's way of spend, spend and bugger the consequences is the right way to go.
I suspect for you to run a successful business as you do you are with out realising it more Tory than labour, if you had operated your business on the same policies as a labour government you would have been bankrupt years ago.

Back to the subject
In your link RAF veteran David "Heavy" Whalley with nearly 40 years experience

Quote

: "There have been big changes afoot for a long time and the financial climate is certainly not helping the situation.

"But though I have a military background I have no fears about the use of civilian operators having worked with them for a long time."

So it's not just a new concept and so long as the government take on board advice from experienced men like him, at the end of the day if I was in need of rescuing by helicopter I would not worry who owns the bloody thing, Biggles for all I care so long as there's a helicopter.
I fish to live and live to fish.

#26 SandTiger

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 10:39 AM

Hello Seafoods

When Digital Selective Calling (DSC) becomes compulsory which it will soon, you will not call mayday just flip a switch and your position, plus description of boat and any other information previously provided by the radio owner will automatically be shown to the rescue coordinator where ever that might be, at the moment it is possible to get a fix just by keying the mike so it doesn't much matter what is screamed over the radio. As for Paul's concern about knowing local conditions it's possible for me to look at local conditions any where in the UK in a matter of minuets on my computer so I can't see a problem there, any way it's up to the life boat men to assess local conditions what ever that means or makes any difference.


Hi

As it stands Digital Selective Calling isn't even compulsory with the charter fleet under the MGN 280 so I think we probably have a long way to go before it becomes compulsory with the leisure fleet. DSC is all well and good if there is someone on the vessel who knows how to operate it, as there is much more to it then simply hitting a switch. It's far easier for someone who is unfamiliar with a DSC VHF set to find 16.

Assuming that the DSC VHF is properly rigged up to your GPS, then yes it's a great addition but you are also still expected to then make a vocal shout on 16 after activating the DSC bitty. In essence it is complementary to the existing system and operates side by side. It is not a full replacement as it can also be subject to error.

#27 big_cod

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 11:59 AM

Hi

As it stands Digital Selective Calling isn't even compulsory with the charter fleet under the MGN 280 so I think we probably have a long way to go before it becomes compulsory with the leisure fleet. DSC is all well and good if there is someone on the vessel who knows how to operate it, as there is much more to it then simply hitting a switch. It's far easier for someone who is unfamiliar with a DSC VHF set to find 16.

Assuming that the DSC VHF is properly rigged up to your GPS, then yes it's a great addition but you are also still expected to then make a vocal shout on 16 after activating the DSC bitty. In essence it is complementary to the existing system and operates side by side. It is not a full replacement as it can also be subject to error.


A bit of sense you are so right sandtiger DSC aint compulsory to us or the leasure craft operators and until it is this change over will cost lives modern technoligy is a great thing but step by step is needed not just lets save a few quid a lot of this costcutting is all political **** the social concequences that cost lives.

paul

http://sea-otter2.co.uk/

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#28 big_cod

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 12:09 PM

So Paul you think Labour's way of spend, spend and bugger the consequences is the right way to go.
I suspect for you to run a successful business as you do you are with out realising it more Tory than labour, if you had operated your business on the same policies as a labour government you would have been bankrupt years ago.

Back to the subject
In your link RAF veteran David "Heavy" Whalley with nearly 40 years experience

Quote

: "There have been big changes afoot for a long time and the financial climate is certainly not helping the situation.

"But though I have a military background I have no fears about the use of civilian operators having worked with them for a long time."

So it's not just a new concept and so long as the government take on board advice from experienced men like him, at the end of the day if I was in need of rescuing by helicopter I would not worry who owns the bloody thing, Biggles for all I care so long as there's a helicopter.


So you wont have taken your winter heating allowance then peter which last govement brought in for the pensioners do you use your bus pass are you fortunate to have nice warm van or car the trouble with this goverment they DONT take advice of anybody just there own and they will pay the rott is allready setting in and is only the start the last goverment werent perfect but this shower cameron is as plastic as you will get he is allready been found out.

paul.

paul.

http://sea-otter2.co.uk/

Probably Whitby's most consistent charterboat

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#29 Bob Shotter

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 12:44 PM

So you wont have taken your winter heating allowance then peter which last govement brought in for the pensioners do you use your bus pass are you fortunate to have nice warm van or car the trouble with this goverment they DONT take advice of anybody just there own and they will pay the rott is allready setting in and is only the start the last goverment werent perfect but this shower cameron is as plastic as you will get he is allready been found out.

paul.

paul.



'the last government werenít perfect'

Thatís an under statement if ever there was one. :lol:

Here is one for you Paul EU MPS get £250.000 in expences with out the need for recipts.
Thats Mr Kinnock his wife and two children sorted. :rolleyes:

Edited by Deene'0, 23 December 2010 - 12:48 PM.

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#30 seafoods

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 12:49 PM

Hello Seafoods

When Digital Selective Calling (DSC) becomes compulsory which it will soon, you will not call mayday just flip a switch and your position, plus description of boat and any other information previously provided by the radio owner will automatically be shown to the rescue coordinator where ever that might be, at the moment it is possible to get a fix just by keying the mike so it doesnít much matter what is screamed over the radio. As for Paulís concern about knowing local conditions it's possible for me to look at local conditions any where in the UK in a matter of minuets on my computer so I can't see a problem there, any way it's up to the life boat men to assess local conditions what ever that means or makes any difference.


Hi Wurzel, Davey B has already explained some of the problems with your thoughts on DSC, I will not go over them again. In addition to what Davey mentioned, I would add that DSC is currently not mandatory for the under 10 metre fleet, let alone pleasure users - this will not happen soon, it will take years. DSC is good - if you lnow how to use it, and if you actually have it, but most boats don't. An effective rescue service has to cater for all marine users, not just those who - because it is mandatory, actually have DSC facilities. Many DSC users actually turn the volume off because the continual calling and testing on it is seen as a nuisance - and this with only a very small proportion of marine users having it. Local weather can vary greatly in a very short distance and the teams on the ground assess it as required - I have previously, whilst on a coastguard job, had to phone a sector manager who had just given a weather report to the MRCC and tell him discreetly that it was completely different where I was - about 8 miles away as the crow flies. You need the correct 'eyes and ears' on the ground - the existing MRCC's know immediately which units to task - delays will happen if the MRCC's are reduced to the proposed level - any delay, no matter how small can cost lives.