Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Stop HS2 and save Savay


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
78 replies to this topic

#11 Stop HS2

Stop HS2

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 29 posts

Posted 28 February 2011 - 02:37 PM

http://stophs2.org/n...otes-oppose-hs2

#12 barry luxton

barry luxton

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,523 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:rochester
  • Interests:Boat fishing and more boat fishing. Some times i have to go to work so it does interfere with my boat fishing, but not much.

Posted 28 February 2011 - 10:35 PM

http://stophs2.org/n...otes-oppose-hs2

Ohh dear, lots of exaggerations, porkies within the greenie link, shall i list a few. :D

 Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.

 
New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.
 
Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.
 
Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.
 
new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.
 
Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because  they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are.. 


#13 Stop HS2

Stop HS2

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 29 posts

Posted 01 March 2011 - 10:59 AM

Ohh dear, lots of exaggerations, porkies within the greenie link, shall i list a few. :D


Barry, I could say the same about the governments BS in the BBC ;) ;) links.

#14 AndyMc

AndyMc

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 22 posts

Posted 02 April 2011 - 10:28 AM

Yes, I hear what you say. I’m a addicted keen carp angler and have been for over 20 years. However, I’m also a supporter of the environment. I believe we need to think about our current scenario and invest in a sustainable transport infrastructure for the UK’s future. I do not believe that saying no to such a proposal is an option for us. DO NOTHING IS NOT AN OPTION. If we say no we need to come up with an alternative that is feasible and realistic. I’m not sure there is one. We can no longer create roads like the M40, M1 and the M25 … the biggest car park in Europe! What do you want …new airports and runways?

NEARLY ALL of the lakes that we fish are there as a DIRECT result of previous damage caused previous environments and local peoples lives. They are there as a result of major road and rail building schemes such as the M25, M40, M1, A1M …and so on. You cannot build these features on this scale snd not make impact. FACT.

Most of the lakes I fish still remain directly next to major roads and railways, pylons ..you name it. In fact there are many carp meccas with such features in the uk. Including a lot of famous French and European venues (look at the road bridge across St Cassien …looks good to me!)

Savay is tight up against the busy Chiltern Railway Line with regular trains passing the lake on a raised embankment. It is within easy hearing distance of the M25. But, do such features stop us wanting to pack in our jobs and be on the banks of these venues for every day of lives? NO. Will it stop us flocking to them to fish? NO.

I saw the proposed visual for the bridge at Savay the other day. It goes high across the lake towards one end. So, not across the middle. It will not divide the lake up. Nor will the construction result in any need to drain any of these lakes. It will not involve pouring wet concrete and all those other made up stories I here. I do not agree with suggestions that it will impact the famous carp population in the lake in the slightest. However, I totally agree it will be a visual intrusion and additional noise for those that are lucky enough to get to fish there. But I have a feeling that the feature will become part of the lakes character and many trophy shots will be posed with the famous “Savay viaduct” as a chosen backdrop

Id like to point out is how many of us value and fish CEMEX owned fisheries. ARE WE SO STUPID THAT WE DO NOT DO KNOW WHAT CEMEX DO? Please visit there website. They are one of the largest companies in the world supplying road and railway construction material. They build high quality international grade concrete railway sleepers. Ask yourself which major company supplied the vast amounts of material to build the HS1 (the High Speed Eurostar Rail) line through Kent)?

So. Why are we running a partition through the Cemex fishing website to STOP HS2? Doesn’t this make us look a bit stupid? Do we not think that CEMEX plan to gain vast supplies and income from this major rail construction? And how many of us wrote in and complained about the proposals for HS1 back when it was going to be built? Probably NONE.

Why not “put our money were our mouths are” and stop acting like selfish NIMBYS. If you really want to show your support AGAINST HS2 well stop fishing CEMEX waters.

Now … lets see how many of us fishing at Cemex lakes such as Yateley and Wraysbury are really willing to do that!!

As they say “Actions speak louder than words”.

Well that’s my rant over … I’m off to my favourite lake in hope of a 40. Fingers crossed I’ll get the swim on the road bank right under the busy road bridge as that’s were those lumps will be !

#15 AndyMc

AndyMc

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 22 posts

Posted 02 April 2011 - 02:26 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk...ngland-12298708

:)

http://www.bbc.co.uk...ngland-12134397


:)


Yes Barry. I've also just read that the project will cost £32b but this will ONLY come from funds needed over the period of construction until 2033. So it is not using money of today. Seems logical during a time or recession to start to look 'future proofed' projects of this type and i see lots of benefits for the northern cities due to direct regeneration. It will create over £44b in terms of regeneration, over £17b from ticket sales and create around 30,000 new jobs directly and indirectly in addition to the 8000-9000 jobs needed for construction.

Birmingham to London in just 49 mins! That makes the Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds travel timings the same as the current commuter belt for London.

Time to invest in property around the proposed northern stations mate.

Manchester to Paris in less than 4 hours! Christ, I could leave the midlands in the mid morning and be sitting behind rods in the middle of peaceful France by the middle of the afternoon!

Lets just hope that like other infrastructure building of this kind it creates loads of lakes and pons .... lots of future Savays , A1 Pits, Linear etc for my current 8 year old to enjoy.

#16 barry luxton

barry luxton

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,523 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:rochester
  • Interests:Boat fishing and more boat fishing. Some times i have to go to work so it does interfere with my boat fishing, but not much.

Posted 02 April 2011 - 06:49 PM

Oh good evening Andy, not another voice of reason in amounst the nimby back yarders, my just what is the uk coming to. :D I do like the emotive picture of a ru@@y great big bridge going right through the middle of an idilc iddle, superb, but surly, have you guessed, that it is fiction and not fact?

Like i said as a local i went through the first lot, hs1 and the motorway doubling at the same time, all done and dusted now. It is nice for the time being having to travel without cueing, until the population catches up with us, not this admins fault btw, i could put the blame on the last admins open door policies, lets not go down the politic route, eh. :lol:

Believe it or not, at the time i was hoping for an international airport on hoo marshes, that would have opened the southeast right up. However, it never came to much as there was a lot of outside opponants telling us how bad it will be for us all. Shame that one. Still they can allways put a new runway or two in at heathrow.

Onwards and upwards. Snigger.

Edited by barry luxton, 02 April 2011 - 06:51 PM.

 Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.

 
New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.
 
Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.
 
Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.
 
new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.
 
Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because  they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are.. 


#17 AndyMc

AndyMc

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 22 posts

Posted 03 April 2011 - 09:20 AM

Oh good evening Andy, not another voice of reason in amounst the nimby back yarders, my just what is the uk coming to. :D I do like the emotive picture of a ru@@y great big bridge going right through the middle of an idilc iddle, superb, but surly, have you guessed, that it is fiction and not fact?

Like i said as a local i went through the first lot, hs1 and the motorway doubling at the same time, all done and dusted now. It is nice for the time being having to travel without cueing, until the population catches up with us, not this admins fault btw, i could put the blame on the last admins open door policies, lets not go down the politic route, eh. :lol:

Believe it or not, at the time i was hoping for an international airport on hoo marshes, that would have opened the southeast right up. However, it never came to much as there was a lot of outside opponants telling us how bad it will be for us all. Shame that one. Still they can allways put a new runway or two in at heathrow.

Onwards and upwards. Snigger.



Hi barry. Are we the only people who think like this? If so, that doesn't make me proud to be an angler :(

This HS2 route proposed is about 1km from my house and yet Im all for it. I live nowhere near any proposed station and yet Im still all for for it.

Come on guys put some forward a balanced argument.

The visualisation I have seen of the viaduct is not the "make it up as you go along" visual shown in the article available on the Korda website. This probably created by someone who has a basic grasp of photoshop and a graphic design package. Shame on you naughty Korda. But doesnt stop me wanting your new indicators! Snigger!

The visual I've seen is the one prepared by HS2 engineers to give an indication of how it might look.

Guys, I'm fine with decent argument ...but lets have complaints based on fact and reality.


Cheers,

Get on the SAY YES TO HS2 website and sign that petition. SAYING NO IS NOT AN OPTION.

#18 AndyMc

AndyMc

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 22 posts

Posted 06 April 2011 - 09:35 PM

What's HS2 I hear you say? It's the new High Speed London-Birmingham rail link proposed by the last government and supported by the latest bunch of muppets too.
The route of this new line will cross the Colne Valley on a 15m tall X 75m wide viaduct going smack through the middle of Pit2, Harefield. (Harrow AS) cross the Grand Union, then straight through Savay Lake; one of the most famous and historic carp lakes in the country.
The cost of this line is projected to be 30billion pounds and will cut journey times to and from Brum by 20-30 minutes.
Please find the link to the STOP HS2 petition web site and sign up.

http://www.gopetitio...s/stop-hs2.html



Hi
I understand that the maximum width specification for the Denham viaduct, including access requirements for maintenance etc, is a maximum 15-16m wide ... not 75m as you quote above.

That is some difference.

On that basis ... I had a brace of 60s at the weekend!!!!? :)

#19 barry luxton

barry luxton

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,523 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:rochester
  • Interests:Boat fishing and more boat fishing. Some times i have to go to work so it does interfere with my boat fishing, but not much.

Posted 07 April 2011 - 07:23 AM

Off topic this bit but, bit on the telly last night, another lot of nimby,s, to loud cheering we now have green non-nuclear windmills off the kent coast, hurrahhhhhh i hear you all saying. However it's now proposed to deliver this electricity by way of pylons, Ohhhhhhh nnnnoooooo your not is the new war cry.




Take the rail protesters driving licences away and give them pony and traps. Take the pylon protesters electric away and give them candles. :)

Edited by barry luxton, 07 April 2011 - 07:31 AM.

 Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.

 
New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.
 
Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.
 
Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.
 
new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.
 
Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because  they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are.. 


#20 Stop HS2

Stop HS2

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 29 posts

Posted 12 April 2011 - 12:58 AM

This says it all. I make no excuse for copying this article by Andrea Leadsom MP.

At a feisty debate in Parliament last week there was universal agreement about the need to improve Britain’s transport infrastructure! But that’s where the consensus ends - and I for one am sick and tired of the debate on High Speed Rail being trivialised into a debate on Southern Nimbys versus the poverty stricken North.

The debate should be about how best to deliver badly needed infrastructure and ensure a re-balancing of our economy with a private sector led recovery across the UK. HS2 would cost each family in Britain more than £1,000, so it must be properly scrutinised to deliver not just extra capacity, but also the value for money that taxpayers are entitled to expect for their money.

I think HS2 is flawed in three main areas; the business case, the environmental case and the claims about job creation and the potential for regeneration. HS2 Ltd claims a net benefit ratio that includes the wider economic impacts of 2.0 - this means £2 of benefit for every £1 spent. This is about the minimum return that could be expected from a rail project and far below the bar set for road projects. Even this modest claim makes enormous assumptions. Specifically, a core and ludicrous assumption is that all time on train journeys is wasted, and therefore that every minute of a train journey that is saved can be given a value in pounds. This wouldn’t matter so much except that the journey time savings account for over 50% of the £20 billion of total economic benefit expected from the project!

Passenger forecasts are another major assumption within the business case, relying on a 216% rise in demand for train travel. The Department for Transport’s own National Travel Survey shows that overall transport demand is no longer growing with GDP. Eurostar’s passenger numbers in 2009 only reached around a third of the level forecast at the time of building the HS1 link. The Department for Transport appeared before the Public Accounts Committee over HS1, and assured them that lessons had been learned and any future major project would factor in more severe downside assumptions...

In cash terms HS2 will never pay for itself. Once built only a third of the total claimed benefits will be captured through fares. The value of the net revenues once it has been built, forecast to be fares of £14 billion less operating costs of £6 billion over a 60 year project life, will cover less than half of the capital costs. Between 2009 and 2015, the DfT expects to have spent around £1 billion just on preparing the way for High Speed Rail. At a time when families up and down the country are feeling the pinch infrastructure projects must, now more than ever, offer value for money.

Second, the environmental impact: HS2 Ltd themselves say that this project is at best, carbon neutral. They predict that 65% of passengers will either transfer from existing rail services, where faster trains inevitably increase carbon emissions, or are additional ‘new’ journeys as a result of the faster trains, which also increases emissions. The shorter journeys by air that will transfer to HS2 will ironically provide more capacity at our regional airports for cheaper long haul flights. It is estimated that the modal shift from car to high speed train will be 7%. HS2 Ltd’s own forecast is that M1 traffic volumes will only reduce by 2% as a result of HS2. There will also be a significant environmental impact during construction, as well as to the English countryside, wildlife and historic sites. I won’t go into this in detail here, but the impact on communities and countryside is hugely damaging.

Third, the prospects for job creation and regeneration. The Department for Transport forecasts that HS2 will create 30,000 new jobs. 9,000 will be construction jobs and likely to be temporary. The rest are expected to be skewed towards property development and retail near to stations. Up to 70% of these jobs will benefit London, where Old Oak Common is believed to be the best location for regeneration. Research done into capital expenditure in the wider economy suggests that the cost to create one job in the first phase is around 4 times what experience elsewhere would predict...

HS1’s experience has not yet delivered the predicted regeneration of towns like Ashford. In fact, traditional commuter trains are now in some cases slower and more packed than ever while the expensive HS1 thunders by half empty.

I think that there is a viable alternative to HS2 – I have urged the Government to carry out an independent evaluation of Rail Package 2. RP2 claims to provide 135% extra capacity extendable to 176% and a significant advantage of it is that it can be introduced incrementally as passenger demand increases. RP2 would require lengthening all Pendolino trains to 11 cars from the current mix of 9 and 11 cars, replacing some commuter trains with 125mph stock so as not to delay faster trains, dealing with bottlenecks at seven specific points along the line, adding platforms at Euston and Manchester and considering laying more track into Birmingham.

RP2 claims a benefit cost ratio of 1.9 (versus 1.6 for HS2 London to West Midlands excluding the ‘wider economic impacts’). It can be delivered far quicker than HS2, dealing with the problem of over-crowding now rather than leaving the commuters of Manchester, Birmingham, Rugby and Milton Keynes to wait for relief until 2026. The danger of overestimating demand is also removed. RP2 can be implemented incrementally; it’s not all or nothing, problems can be dealt with as they arise. It is of course, around half the cost of the first phase of HS2!

Supporters of HS2 should stop passing off opposition as NIMBYISM. There are legitimate questions about value for money and many organisations are now questioning the business case including the TaxPayer’s Alliance, the Adam Smith Institute, the Institute of Economic Affairs, Friends of the Earth, the Sustainable Development Commission, rail experts and the Countryside Alliance. We must have a robust debate on High Speed Rail. Taxpayers should not be picking up the tab for a project with an uncertain outcome until all legitimate questions and concerns have been properly addressed.

Andy, can you tell what part of this viaduct dose not go through the middle of the lakes in the Valley? Oh, and also the picture looks pretty much the same as the one in the Korda article to me but then again I haven't got your knowlege of Photoshop.

http://www.uxbridgeg...13046-28472469/