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Stop HS2 and save Savay


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#71 Stop HS2

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 03:49 PM

Hello Barry & Andy, it's Stopo, you have been busy in the last few days.
Firstly, the nit picking over if the viaduct goes through or over the lakes and how badly they will be affected? It will pass over or through the middle of Pit2, it will go over or through part of Savay, it will go over or through near enough the middle of Korda and pass very close to several other well known Colne Valley lakes and the Long Pond will probably be filled in.
I take it that you can both read maps? Look at the map supplied by HS2 on the link provided.

http://highspeedrail...rary/maps/map-5

Looked? Good, no arguement or splitting hairs there then!!

As I said in an earlier post, the logistics involved and the amount of destruction caused by the plant required for a project of this magnitude are massive and will take years to build and even longer for the area to recover, if ever, the peace and quiet will never return, not with trains thundering across every four minutes at up to 200 mph with a noise approaching a 100 DB. The disruption to the area over several years during construction dosen't bear thinking about
One of you mentioned that I should worry about SSSI's and homes, I am, there are several SSSI's within the valley, HS2 is due to smash through at least one as well as more further up the line, see link.

http://www.hertswild...fe/High Speed 2

Of the four lakes within the SSSI, Broadwater Lake is by far the biggest at around 80 hectares and is one of the largest expanses of open water in the Colne Valley. It supports a number of wooded islands. The other lakes are Harefield Moor, Korda Lake and the Long Pond. The nature reserve includes Korda, Long Pond, the River Colne and the western side of Broadwater Lake. Around the pits are remnants of the original alluvial grasslands and valley alderwoods. These grade into beech and hornbeam woodland and mixed scrub on the western slopes.
The Mid-Colne Valley SSSI has considerable ornithological importance, particularly for the diversity of breeding wetland birds and for the numbers of wintering waterbirds. The principal area of interest is Broadwater Lake which supports nationally important numbers of both wintering and summer moulting waterbirds. The smaller Korda Lake, Long Pond and River Colne all provide an important supporting role to the main lake.
Wintering birds include Great Crested Grebe, Cormorant, Gadwall, Shoveler, Tufted Duck, Pochard, Wigeon, Teal, Goldeneye, Smew, Ruddy Duck and Coot. The first five species have been present above the level of national importance in recent years, while Gadwall have also exceeded the level of international significance.
Breeding birds include Coot, Greylag Goose, Little Ringed Plover, Kingfisher, Mute Swan, Grey Heron, Egyptian Goose and Tufted Duck. Gadwall and Shoveler occasionally breed. A colony of Cormorants has also become established on the islands of Broadwater Lake. The lake also supports nationally important moult gatherings of Tufted Duck. Over 500 were recorded in the summer of 1990 but counts in recent years have been lower.
Since excavation there has been a natural colonisation by typical wetland plants and animals. The River Colne is the most natural feature of the site. It still retains a meandering channel in parts with some pools and riffles. The banks of the gravel pits, although of relatively recent origin, support a variety of willows and fen plants such as Water-plantain, Yellow Iris and Gipsywort. In sheltered areas, where the banks are gently shelving, more extensive stands of tall swamp vegetation occur, comprising mainly Common Reed and Reedmace.
The River Colne is known to be important for bats, with large numbers of Daubentons feeding along the river, the wildlife is not restricted to the conservation areas, there are large colonies of Slowworms and Grass Snakes on the existing railway embankment and other parts of the proposed route.
The viaduct will also pass close to the large South Harefield housing estate and Harfield Marina, many of the 100 or so boats are residential, the small hamlet of West Hyde will be affected, their peace and quite during construction and opperation will be gone.
You also talked about the success of HS1. Is that the same HS1 that went over budget, bust and had to be bailed out by the government and hasn't lived up to it's predicted traffic levels? The same HS1 that was flogged off at a tremendous loss to the British tax payer?
The facts you keep mentioning are produced by either the government or HS2, you seem to think that their some sort of Ten Commandments written in stone by god, I treat anything written by goverments when their trying to flog me something as a good idea with a huge pinch of salt and scepticism, they will only tell you what they think you want to hear.
At present the budget for this waste of money has been quoted at anything between 17.5 - 30 billion, what's to say this project won't go over that? The new Wembley stadium went hugely over budget, so did the Olympics 2012 site, also the Dome and HS1.
The general disruption caused to West London and the A40 corridoor into and out London will be monumental and cause more problems to business and transport than it's worth, it's taken the Chiltern line over a year to build and install one new bridge at the entrance to the West Waste site at South Ruislip, how much longer and how much delay and cost to business will be caused through road closures whilst constructing many bridges along the proposed route into and out of London including the imfamous A40-A406 Gyratory junction?
All that Iv'e written about will not only happen in the Colne Valley and the route out of London but many times over along the proposed 120 mile route, and more if it's ever going to get any further than Birmingham. Still think it's worth it? Don't bother answering, I already know the answer.
Sorry fella's but there's no way your going to convince me (and many, many others) that this idea is valid on business, green or value for money issues and that's a FACT.

Edited by Stop HS2, 24 April 2011 - 04:24 PM.


#72 barry luxton

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 06:29 PM

quote:

Still think it's worth it? Don't bother answering, I already know the answer.


that's your way of trying to tell us to shut up then. You brush aside my points re that we have already gone through the construction period and also the after effects that i'm telling you all has settled down. You mention the olympics, worked through that one as well on the comute up to london with many hundreds of hotels built along with the village, changed that part of london for a long time to come. It used to be worse than a dump. All of the major work is done and complete a long time before the opening, so you really aught to take your hats off to them.
The first foto, looks like a tiny rail line considering the vast amount of water it's crossing.

 Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.

 
New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.
 
Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.
 
Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.
 
new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.
 
Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because  they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are.. 


#73 Stop HS2

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 07:39 PM

quote:

Still think it's worth it? Don't bother answering, I already know the answer.


that's your way of trying to tell us to shut up then. You brush aside my points re that we have already gone through the construction period and also the after effects that i'm telling you all has settled down. You mention the olympics, worked through that one as well on the comute up to london with many hundreds of hotels built along with the village, changed that part of london for a long time to come. It used to be worse than a dump. All of the major work is done and complete a long time before the opening, so you really aught to take your hats off to them.
The first foto, looks like a tiny rail line considering the vast amount of water it's crossing.


Barry, I would never be so impolite, perhaps you misunderstood my attempt at sarcasm. As said previously, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, you and Andy have your's and I mine, nothing is meant personally I assure you.
Ah yes, the Olympics site, thats the one where most of the jobs on the site (unskilled and semi skilled) were promised to employ mainly local people who lived in the Bow and Stratford area, and that the resulting building boom would benefit the same in jobs and affordable housing before, during and after the event, sadly I think you'll find that none of that has occured.

Edited by Stop HS2, 24 April 2011 - 07:49 PM.


#74 barry luxton

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 07:49 PM

don't know that many builders in stratford, hackney etc, you will be ok if you know how to use a gun, they mainly breed druggies, perhaps that was the reason why many had to be shipped in. Ahh affordable housing, there's another topic going on re the traffic problems. I can assure you london has had enough of affordable housing, it's already full up. And you are asking for a bit of peace and quiet, thats a bit selfish, shall the london planners decend on your area. You don't know your born, Graham. ;)


Most of the residents in bow, stratford ain't home grown.

My attempt at sarcasm btw.

Edited by barry luxton, 24 April 2011 - 07:57 PM.

 Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.

 
New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.
 
Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.
 
Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.
 
new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.
 
Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because  they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are.. 


#75 AndyMc

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 08:12 PM

Hello Barry & Andy, it's Stopo, you have been busy in the last few days.
Firstly, the nit picking over if the viaduct goes through or over the lakes and how badly they will be affected? It will pass over or through the middle of Pit2, it will go over or through part of Savay, it will go over or through near enough the middle of Korda and pass very close to several other well known Colne Valley lakes and the Long Pond will probably be filled in.
I take it that you can both read maps? Look at the map supplied by HS2 on the link provided.

http://highspeedrail...rary/maps/map-5

Looked? Good, no arguement or splitting hairs there then!!

As I said in an earlier post, the logistics involved and the amount of destruction caused by the plant required for a project of this magnitude are massive and will take years to build and even longer for the area to recover, if ever, the peace and quiet will never return, not with trains thundering across every four minutes at up to 200 mph with a noise approaching a 100 DB. The disruption to the area over several years during construction dosen't bear thinking about
One of you mentioned that I should worry about SSSI's and homes, I am, there are several SSSI's within the valley, HS2 is due to smash through at least one as well as more further up the line, see link.

http://www.hertswild...fe/High Speed 2

Of the four lakes within the SSSI, Broadwater Lake is by far the biggest at around 80 hectares and is one of the largest expanses of open water in the Colne Valley. It supports a number of wooded islands. The other lakes are Harefield Moor, Korda Lake and the Long Pond. The nature reserve includes Korda, Long Pond, the River Colne and the western side of Broadwater Lake. Around the pits are remnants of the original alluvial grasslands and valley alderwoods. These grade into beech and hornbeam woodland and mixed scrub on the western slopes.
The Mid-Colne Valley SSSI has considerable ornithological importance, particularly for the diversity of breeding wetland birds and for the numbers of wintering waterbirds. The principal area of interest is Broadwater Lake which supports nationally important numbers of both wintering and summer moulting waterbirds. The smaller Korda Lake, Long Pond and River Colne all provide an important supporting role to the main lake.
Wintering birds include Great Crested Grebe, Cormorant, Gadwall, Shoveler, Tufted Duck, Pochard, Wigeon, Teal, Goldeneye, Smew, Ruddy Duck and Coot. The first five species have been present above the level of national importance in recent years, while Gadwall have also exceeded the level of international significance.
Breeding birds include Coot, Greylag Goose, Little Ringed Plover, Kingfisher, Mute Swan, Grey Heron, Egyptian Goose and Tufted Duck. Gadwall and Shoveler occasionally breed. A colony of Cormorants has also become established on the islands of Broadwater Lake. The lake also supports nationally important moult gatherings of Tufted Duck. Over 500 were recorded in the summer of 1990 but counts in recent years have been lower.
Since excavation there has been a natural colonisation by typical wetland plants and animals. The River Colne is the most natural feature of the site. It still retains a meandering channel in parts with some pools and riffles. The banks of the gravel pits, although of relatively recent origin, support a variety of willows and fen plants such as Water-plantain, Yellow Iris and Gipsywort. In sheltered areas, where the banks are gently shelving, more extensive stands of tall swamp vegetation occur, comprising mainly Common Reed and Reedmace.
The River Colne is known to be important for bats, with large numbers of Daubentons feeding along the river, the wildlife is not restricted to the conservation areas, there are large colonies of Slowworms and Grass Snakes on the existing railway embankment and other parts of the proposed route.
The viaduct will also pass close to the large South Harefield housing estate and Harfield Marina, many of the 100 or so boats are residential, the small hamlet of West Hyde will be affected, their peace and quite during construction and opperation will be gone.
You also talked about the success of HS1. Is that the same HS1 that went over budget, bust and had to be bailed out by the government and hasn't lived up to it's predicted traffic levels? The same HS1 that was flogged off at a tremendous loss to the British tax payer?
The facts you keep mentioning are produced by either the government or HS2, you seem to think that their some sort of Ten Commandments written in stone by god, I treat anything written by goverments when their trying to flog me something as a good idea with a huge pinch of salt and scepticism, they will only tell you what they think you want to hear.
At present the budget for this waste of money has been quoted at anything between 17.5 - 30 billion, what's to say this project won't go over that? The new Wembley stadium went hugely over budget, so did the Olympics 2012 site, also the Dome and HS1.
The general disruption caused to West London and the A40 corridoor into and out London will be monumental and cause more problems to business and transport than it's worth, it's taken the Chiltern line over a year to build and install one new bridge at the entrance to the West Waste site at South Ruislip, how much longer and how much delay and cost to business will be caused through road closures whilst constructing many bridges along the proposed route into and out of London including the imfamous A40-A406 Gyratory junction?
All that Iv'e written about will not only happen in the Colne Valley and the route out of London but many times over along the proposed 120 mile route, and more if it's ever going to get any further than Birmingham. Still think it's worth it? Don't bother answering, I already know the answer.
Sorry fella's but there's no way your going to convince me (and many, many others) that this idea is valid on business, green or value for money issues and that's a FACT.



Stopo

Thats so funny.
I thought for a moment that you actually knew what you were talking about until i quickly realised that you've simply just cut and copied the SSSI Citation. trust me to notice ... with MSc Ecology background! Te he.

http://www.english-n...oto/1003469.pdf

#76 Stop HS2

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 08:38 PM

don't know that many builders in stratford, hackney etc, you will be ok if you know how to use a gun, they mainly breed druggies, perhaps that was the reason why many had to be shipped in. Ahh affordable housing, there's another topic going on re the traffic problems. I can assure you london has had enough of affordable housing, it's already full up. And you are asking for a bit of peace and quiet, thats a bit selfish, shall the london planners decend on your area. You don't know your born, Graham. ;)


Most of the residents in bow, stratford ain't home grown.

My attempt at sarcasm btw.

Funny you should say that, a few years ago now the Notting Hill Housing Association applied for planning permission to use some of the land that was created by a redundant local school which was demolished and partly developed by a private company, the nimby's as you like to call them got up a petition trying to stop the social housing part of the development, I'm proud to say that I was one of the few that refused to sign, your predudice and bigotry have at last surfaced, Stratford and Bow along with most of the East End has alway's been an area attractive to immigrants for over a 100 years, I should know, thats where half of my family hails from, the other half comes from Nth Kensington, Willesden and Stonebridge NW10, got any opinions on those areas to you'd like to share? Oh, and by the way thanks for the personal insult.
Barry, your last post really says a lot about you, something not very nice, I won't stoop to your level by saying.

Edited by Stop HS2, 24 April 2011 - 08:58 PM.


#77 Stop HS2

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 08:54 PM

Something on a lighter note.
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=_4CPx9Nzwbs

#78 Stop HS2

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:05 PM

Stopo

Thats so funny.
I thought for a moment that you actually knew what you were talking about until i quickly realised that you've simply just cut and copied the SSSI Citation. trust me to notice ... with MSc Ecology background! Te he.

http://www.english-n...oto/1003469.pdf

One might say the same about your posts on HS2, mostly rehashed HS2 blurb but thats OK I suppose if you've got an MSc to brag about.

#79 Newt

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:11 PM

Enough of this topic. All the pertinent info appears to have been posted and discussed and the thing is now moving into personal comments.

That usually indicates a topic has passed its "sell by" date and is starting to go rancid.
" My choices in life were either to be a piano player in a whore house or a politician. And to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference!" - Harry Truman, 33rd US President