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Best Fluorocarbon line ?


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#11 jameshodkin

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 06:24 PM

Not everyone who fishes for Carp at some point during their fishing year is a Korda loving idiot who just buys whats "trendy" gear you know

Last year I fished a gin clear ex iron ore pit where the water is about 10-12ft straight off the rod tip, the Carp & Tench come in close within a foot of the bank and i found with mono i was constantly spooking them and getting liners. I didn't want to use backleads as there is a lot of weed and i thought this would be dangerous and could lead to snagging up should i get a take
I needed a heavy line that sank like a stone and was less visible than the mono i was using. I switched to X-line which fit the bill perfectly and ended my run of blanks on the water, however after a hook pull after trying to bully a fish away from snags as i was worried about the fluorocarbon's knot strength and abrasion qualities i went back to mono, all be it a coated hybrid with the properties of both

I wouldn't describe that as "falling for the marketing hype" i was merely adapting to the situation

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#12 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 07:11 PM

Not everyone who fishes for Carp at some point during their fishing year is a Korda loving idiot who just buys whats "trendy" gear you know

Last year I fished a gin clear ex iron ore pit where the water is about 10-12ft straight off the rod tip, the Carp & Tench come in close within a foot of the bank and i found with mono i was constantly spooking them and getting liners. I didn't want to use backleads as there is a lot of weed and i thought this would be dangerous and could lead to snagging up should i get a take
I needed a heavy line that sank like a stone and was less visible than the mono i was using. I switched to X-line which fit the bill perfectly and ended my run of blanks on the water, however after a hook pull after trying to bully a fish away from snags as i was worried about the fluorocarbon's knot strength and abrasion qualities i went back to mono, all be it a coated hybrid with the properties of both

I wouldn't describe that as "falling for the marketing hype" i was merely adapting to the situation

James


So you seriously believe that you couldnt have caught as well on mono as you did on X-Line?
And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

#13 Steve Burke

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 07:54 PM

Here are some interesting fluorocarbon facts and comparative tests:

http://www.tackletou...carbontest.html

http://www.tackletou...orocarbon2.html
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#14 kestrel

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 08:11 PM

The main reason I like Fluorocarbon as a mainline is that it sinks rapidly and lays on the bottom, I realise that it does not have a great knot strength and that is also not as supple as some mono.
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#15 Steve Burke

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 08:44 PM

Here are some interesting fluorocarbon facts and comparative tests:

http://www.tackletou...carbontest.html

http://www.tackletou...orocarbon2.html


I'd add that these are lab tests on lots of different brands. There's also a comparison with Berkley XL, a popular US mono which can be bought here, which means that conclusions were reached as to how mono and fluorocarbon compared regarding stretch, knot strength and abrasion resistance etc.

The only flaw is that they tested only one mono. In particular Berkley XL has very poor abrasion resistance compared with many other monos.

As I've mentioned in the past, lab tests are a good starting point. They enable you to draw up a short list for field-testing.

I've field-tested 2 fluorocarbons as reel lines. The first was the original Berkeley Vanish. Surprisingly for a Berkley product it was awful, and like so many others I binned it. I haven't tried Vanish Mark 2.

The other product I tried as a reel line wasn't a true fluorocarbon but a fluorocarbon-coated mono. This was Krystonite from top line company Kryston. Tests in the bath showed it sunk no better than Pro Gold mono, but initial field tests were quite encouraging. However longer term I found it became very wiry, and once again I returned to Pro Gold. Apparently others have made the same observation.

Whilst I'm not happy with fluorocarbons or hybrids for reel lines, I am for hooklinks in certain circumstances. I use Preston Fluorocarbon that I understand is re-badged Seaguar Grand Max.
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#16 jameshodkin

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 10:02 PM

So you seriously believe that you couldn't have caught as well on mono as you did on X-Line?


You're missing the point of what i was saying in my post entirely. You made a comment basically stating that anyone who's fished and had success with Fluorocarbon line main line has only used it because they've fallen for the marketing hype which is a bit of a generalisation don't you think? If you read my post you'll see i reverted back to a form of Mono in the end, i just prefer to try all the options available to me for myself and come to a conclusion myself regarding whether or not it's the right path to take rather than sticking with the same tactics and tackle i've not had success with.

Surely this is applicable to most forms of angling? Such as a hooklength diameter change when pole fishing for bits on a Canal? Or changing the float when trotting to one which provides better control in a fast flow? Sometimes a change can bring success, sometimes not but you certainly won't find out if you don't try for yourself
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#17 arbocop

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 10:20 PM

Whilst I'm not happy with fluorocarbons or hybrids for reel lines, I am for hooklinks in certain circumstances. I use Preston Fluorocarbon that I understand is re-badged Seaguar Grand Max.



Hi Steve - can I ask which circumstances?

I must say I'm tying myself in knots on this whole line issue. I've been using braid for trotting and legering on the Kennet, but I'm never sure whther I prefer it or mono. I use fourocarbon as a hooklength religously when fly fishing, but not when trotting. I feel that when trotting or legering I need stretch when using braid so a mono bottom is best, but I like the properties of Flouro as a hooklength. I don't use braid hooklength when legering and never hair rig or anything. I occasionally use mono for trotting, or laying on etc. but use Daiwa. The whole thing has ciome aboyut since I witnessed my line spook chub and trout last summer. On most occasions it was fireline, but that'sbecause I normally use fioreline. I have tried spiderwire in camo, and I'm quite pleased with it but only for winter legering so it's an unfair test.

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#18 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 07:05 AM

You're missing the point of what i was saying in my post entirely.



Ah James I now understand! It seems it was you who missed the point I was trying to make!

As you have said you tried Fluorocarbon to see how it would perform.You compared it to what you had used before then made up your mind.Quite logical and how I treat "new" products.

My point is that (and you may not like this) the vast majority don't do it like this! They have no experience or knowledge of the product they have brought. Look at how many (for example as it has been aimed at them as a mainline) Carp anglers have no idea of its original use/intended application in angling? They definitely only buy it due to the marketing hype.They have no idea of its properties or how it would actually impact on their fishing other than what the marketing people have told them ("marketing people" in this case refers to sponsored writers as well as media advertising)

Maybe even more relevant they once having brought it have no depth of experience to enable them to compare it to anything else.When ever I ask "why" they like a product they simply cant tell me................other than repeating the manufacturers claims.

Good example being all on here who have made big of fluorocarbons sinking properties.Now the Burkester has messed around in his bath tub trying direct comparisons! All a bit "Heath Robinson" you may think but to me 100% more useful than all those who have just repeated the marketing blurb.He also has the experience of other materials to compare with.

So do you get my point?

This can be applied to many products these days James not just line as in this case.
And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

#19 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 07:32 AM

Hi Steve - can I ask which circumstances?

I must say I'm tying myself in knots on this whole line issue. I've been using braid for trotting and legering on the Kennet, but I'm never sure whther I prefer it or mono. I use fourocarbon as a hooklength religously when fly fishing, but not when trotting. I feel that when trotting or legering I need stretch when using braid so a mono bottom is best, but I like the properties of Flouro as a hooklength. I don't use braid hooklength when legering and never hair rig or anything. I occasionally use mono for trotting, or laying on etc. but use Daiwa. The whole thing has ciome aboyut since I witnessed my line spook chub and trout last summer. On most occasions it was fireline, but that'sbecause I normally use fioreline. I have tried spiderwire in camo, and I'm quite pleased with it but only for winter legering so it's an unfair test.

Mike


Got to be careful here Mike not to confuse using it as a hook length and as a mainline.

Fluoro carbon can make (as Steve says in some circumstances) a great hook length.......no great surprise as that's what it was introduced to angling for! I'm still totally unconvinced it has any use as a mainline though.

As for fish spooking off mainlines (which is what I presume your on about?) my experience has shown me that normally this is for only one (or both) of two reasons, First is FNS (Floating Nylon Syndrome) a commonly recognised problem in dry fly fishing) This is where the line is floating on the water and casting a shadow.Very common reason for fish (be it a trout rising to a fly or a carp taking a mixer) to turn away at the very last minute for no apparent reason.

Second reason (and applicable to a far wider range of angling situations) is the fish physically coming into contact with the line and spooking as it touches them............................and the irony here (with fluorocarbons and their apparent "invisibility" in mind) is the reason that touching it spooks them is because they haven't seen it! When they see something be it a reed stem or barge rope mainline they have no issues with it touching then or rubbing against it! I don't want to anthropomorphize but imagine from a human perspective suddenly coming into contact with an unseen object.

One of the most popular carp monos for several years was Berkeley Big Game and you couldn't get a thicker more obtrusive line! could see it in the sun going out into the lake hundreds of metres away!

Lastly Ive said that it can make great hook lengths in some circumstances same as Steve so best justify that. The circumstances I find its best in are the ones where its properties are best used! So its properties are sinking,better non reflection of light,stiffer so therefore brilliant for hook lengths..................especially fly fishing ones...................which was its intended purpose!

In some coarse fishing situations the stiffness isn't desirable.Just a case of using the best tool for the job.

BTW: My comments on fish spooking are based on actual observation in the natural environment not in tanks or on what I read,guessed or dreamed up whilst laid stoned on a bedchair ;)
And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

#20 Anderoo

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 09:58 AM

I tried flourocarbon as a fly fishing tippet material when it first appeared on the scene, and had some terrible experiences with it. I treated it the same as nylon and it would break all the time, sometimes at the knot, sometimes just anywhere. So I binned it and went back to mono. However, it did get me more takes than mono, that was very clear.

I have recently bought some of this stuff in 6.6lb: http://www.sportfish...rocarbon-tippet

The main difference between this and what I used to use, is that the old stuff cost about a fiver for 100m, whereas this is over 20! I've played around with it and used a palomar to tie a hook on, and I can't snap it with my bare hands. It is really strong, supple, and very low diameter. I bought it for the leader material for drop-shotting for perch, where you're expecting perch to inspect a mainly static lure for some time before deciding whether to take it or not.

So, not all flourocarbons are equal.

Good posts Budgie, I think you've summed it up perfectly. James I didn't mean to suggest you were blindly following marketing hype (and your posts show that you weren't), but I bet almost all sales of flourocarbon mainlines are for that single reason - which I think is backed up by the really high BS people buy as well, with 20lb now common.

I hate to bang the same drum, but people are being sold bad information and unsuitable (and expensive) products.
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