Do fish see colour?

[Newt]

Red is the first colour to vanish as it goes deeper into the water. I have no real clue if the line vanishes or not but from my experience using various lines, red has not put fish off and at times, has outfished clear mono or green braid. That said, I was lure fishing and have no real clue what would happen with more static bait fishing.

 

I also have no clue if fish see colours as we think of them but they do see something because, lures again, there are days when a certain colour of a lure fishes well while the identical shape in a different colour is ignored. I've been lure fishing for over 50 years and while I know some general rules for picking a lure colour based on the water (darker water = darker lures /w more action & noise), I still have to try various colours to see which, if any, will catch fish on a given day or time of day.

[Chris Plumb]

Red is the first colour to 'disappear' - at around 10m depth IIRC - though it would still appear as black. Steve Burke put me onto - and you can still buy it 2nd hand for a steal - the truely excellent New Compleat Angler by Downes & Knowelden - out of print for years but stuffed full of interesting and readible techy stuff about fish physiology including fish retinas. If you ever see it come up on ebay - get it!

 

 

C.

Edited April 23, 2009 by Chris Plumb

[essox_lucius]

blue is supposedly a good colour in deep water,cant explain why!

once had a Tilapia buttikoferi in the shop which was fine ubtill it seen blue any shade didnt matter then it attacked the glass , a mate fished a lake and all his yellow floats got hit by pike , and red maggots are a killer for roach rudd and perch

[weirwulf]

I asked this question not long ago in a monthly mag because I had noticed Matt using red line in some articles and on TV and then wondered how come red maggots are so devastating unless they can be seen and distinguished and this would indicate the line could also be seen. The reply basically suggested that if it works for you do it! I am not a "carper" myself but I am aware that flouro pop ups fished on their own can often be a winning way to catch so I think there may be something in it

[poledark]

Red line (Powerpro) certainly frightens Grebes and Coots. I see the reactions every day. Moorhens walk all over it without a care in the world

 

Basking/cruising Carp take no notice.

 

Grebes are not bothered by other coloured lines...even quite pale washed out line (almost white) Coots avoid it, but are not "spooked"

 

 

This is consistant behaviour observed over 2 seasons use.

 

So I deduce that Carp are not scared of red line, but some waterbirds are scared of red.

 

Carp certainly eat a lot of bright red baits (at least 5 so far this week )

 

On Tuesday I pinned my red lines down because the water is clear and the sun was shining. I could clearly see the line in the water, so assumed other creatures could also see it, so I pinned it down. caught nowt

 

Fished the same on Wednesday up 'till about 2pm, and then (partly due to laziness, partly to boredom) I put on some very bright red boilies (not fluoro) , and fished a tight line with no backleads. Bright sun, clear water.

 

Caught 3 large carp (one VERY large)

 

Returned to same swim today,arrived about 3pm, and had a couple more including another BIG one

 

Can Carp see colour....certainly can............are they scared by red line....certainly aren't.

 

By the way, the water was only about 7/8feet deep, I could see the bottom, so the fish could certainly see my line/rig/ and bait.

 

Den

[Phone]

All,

 

While replying to another thread I saw this in the "related" section. Thought I would comment. Unfortunately, I can only address carp with certainty. I do know most predatory fish see color "better" than carp but that's about all I could say.

 

Phone on Carp color vision.

For taste and smell there are thousands of different smell/taste receptors, reacting to thousands of different molecules. Much of the analysis of taste and smell is done at the molecular receptor level. This is very different from how vision and color is or should be analyzed. Can carp see color? Both carp and people “see” light with rods and cones in the eye. So for vision unlike taste and smell there are not very many choices. Rods = black and white - - - Cones = color (there are 3 cones; green, red, blue). Cones work independently of one from another, hard wired to the brain. Light can have brightness or not. That’s all the choices there are.

 

Vision is that portion the electromagnetic spectrum “WE” see. Carp and people see different wavelengths but we do it essentially the same way. If we see a single wavelength we only see one color. Fishermen see light in wavelengths from about 350 nm to about 750 nm. An “nm” is from the top of one light wavelength to the top of the next one. nm is about one billionth of a meter in length. For comparison, if we see a wavelength of 430nm we would probably say the object is blue … 650nm we would say red. Color is a hard wired process of visual information, a part of the brain for both fishermen and carp although carp don’t really have much going for them in the brain vision department. Black and White are not colors. Black is the absence of light and white is all light mixed.

 

Fisherman brains can see “orange” two ways. First, if a single light wavelength is the correct wavelength to process orange then we see orange. Or, we could see the correct mix of wavelengths (say, 60% green – 40% red) we would also say we see orange. Either way our brain says we see orange. Carp CANNOT process this (color) type information, they do not have the proper “hard wiring”. For fishermen, distinguishing color requires complex mental analysis while carp vision is far more sensitive to movement, depth, and differences in brightness, information that is sent from the rods. These differences serve carp far better in the world of survival from their predators.

 

For fishing, I think it is going to be far simpler to talk about only “additive” light. For this discussion we will forget subtractive pigment (absorption) where the light goes nowhere and does nothing that is really related to “seeing” from a fisherman/carp perspective. Remember, rods see our orange color as only light or dark but not as color. Carp see our “orange” with - brightness, depth of field, and movement, but mostly from the rods. The cones see color only, and, in the case of carp a Phone theory is their cones contribute most with depth of field, a little with brightness – if anything.

Here’s the deal. Fly fishermen (these anglers have the best vision) have about 110 – 120 million rods. Carp have fewer rods than a fisherman and an eagle has more rods - - - forget rods (they don’t pertain to color). For fishermen rods don’t even work, they stay turned off in the brain, they don’t register when there is enough light for the cones to do the job (remember, they work independently (rods and cones)). Which brings us up to the all important cones? An angler, with his keen, color vision has about 5 – 6 million cones – his quarry, carp have ONLY maybe one hundred thousand (more blue than green or red). Cones “do” color via Ganglion Neuron Cells (GNC). Information received by a single cone is transported back into the skull and then back into our brains where color vision occurs. Our brain can blend, “speed-up” or slow down the firing rate (from the cones) deliver information in a both contentious and uncontentious manner. Carp brains cannot - and do not - do this even if the specific wavelength of light “hit” receptive cones. Simply put, we have 3 types of cones (red or long wavelength; green or medium wavelength; and blue or short wavelength and the cones only “turn-on” in the brain if the light wavelength happens to coincide with the receptive qualities of that particular cone. Carp have cones but do not process color as learned colors. They simply are not physiologically capable.

 

Remember, every fisherman, even Newt, was almost 2 (TWO) before he “learned” color processing for red and green and nearer 3 (THREE) before he learned blue. Color is LEARNED. Even today, if you “see” exactly 50% green mixed with exactly 50% red you will say “I see yellow – 100%!!. That is what you learned at age two about green and red light mixed. There is a theory that I tend to believe in. A guy named Herring believed “light vision” science is nuts!. His theory is, “I see what I see.”

 

In summary, what affects what you see as “color” is F – A – R different from what a carp sees. A carp, like Herring, sees what it sees. NO COLOR, no mental processing, and for survival, doesn’t care. To see color you must combine first, the psychological factor – three people will disagree on which tomato is reddest. Second, the light source factor – place a green object next to a neutral object and the neutral object will appear greenish. Or, a better one for fisherman is to light an object with florescent light and the same object with natural light – we have either “learned” the object is the same color or we “say” it is a different color in florescent light. Either way it requires a “brain” decision carp cannot make. If carp could see color one object would appears greenish because of the light source factor. Since carp live in a vertical world of radically changing light sources color has been “de-selected” as unimportant. And third, probably an equally important reason why nature did not endow carp with color vision is color consistency. Think of it this way, look at the world through rose-colored glasses and the color of rose will disappear. But alas, even though their eyes have cones, the answer is, carp do not see color.

 

Overall, with color I think it is important to remember as light penetrates water wavelengths are lost. Blue, is the last to go, thus for fish it is the last color available. (That's why we "see" the ocean as blue.)

 

Phone

[Dales]

carp do not see color.

 

Phone

 

So what's he best colour bait for Carp fishing?

 

Blue?

[Phone]

Dales,

 

Well, blue is the last color (reflected light) to dissapear. I'd say if you are incorporating motion into your carp bait then blue by all means. But alas, after hundereds of thousands of hours testing - - it seems carp did not read my research. In most freshwater light, thus color, does not make a difference after the first meter for carp. Beyond that (one meter), color is a "fisherman's" choice (or bait manufacturer's choice).

 

I know, I know, all experienced anglers can give an example or two that disputes "color not mattering". Probably coincidence since every anglers "favorite" color is different?

 

Completely blind (intentionally) carp survived equally well with sighted fish from the same hatch, at least for one year (the length of the experienment).

 

Phone

Edited August 11, 2011 by Phone

[Adam247]

yea fish have a good range of colour even infrared apparently at the high end of the spectrum but i always catch on red mags n corn also white mags

[Dick Dastardly]

Dales and Phone,

This is such a complicated subject! As blue is the LAST colour to disappear this also means that at a certain depth everything appears blue (well to the human eye at least) It has been suggested then that a blue bait is good for BIG carp as it wouldn't easily be seen (ie everything being the same colour) For big carp as its generally thought they rely more on smell/taste to locate food rather than smaller carp who predominantly sight feed.