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Martin Salter and Mark Lloyd fail to deliver again


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#11 barry luxton

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 08:33 AM

Any time Andy you stick to your guns mate. Ive known for a long time that the AT would fail its just that the damage they are doing in the mean time is just adding more and more nails to "Angling Unities" coffin and alienating yet another generation of anglers hoping for representation.

By the time all the sad old faces have died they will have screwed it up so much that even when a new group of faces come along to try and get the job done the whole concept of "Angling Unity" and representation for all will simply have been tarred beyond recovery.

I'm sure you know all the people I'm on about as they have been lurking in angling politics as members of many "new" angling bodies (all have which have failed by making the same mistakes) for a lot of my adult life. Ironically I bet some will end up with gongs for it as well!


My concern is that they will apply some of their style of help and assistance to the sea anglers. They have demonstrated help with the eel and tope specis without consultation. The only time the trust appears over the parapet is for a foto shoot for example, in front of big ben with some m p or other. I have yet to see them down the sea side let alone on an angling boat, yet their expertise knows, no bounds.

There is also something concerning voting rights for members and the agm. i heard that members don't actually have a voice in voting whoever on or off the board. Perhaps someone can clear that one up.

I note they had a exciting press release regarding so many clubs having joined the trust. How many individual sea anglers have joined, or pulling hens teeth a more practicle excercise. :) Andy, don't let or take it to a personal level and you will do fine. No problem with having and pointing out differences of opinion mate.

Edited by barry luxton, 23 December 2011 - 08:35 AM.

 Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.

 
New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.
 
Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.
 
Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.
 
new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.
 
Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because  they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are.. 


#12 andy_youngs

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 09:02 AM

Andy, don't let or take it to a personal level. No problem with having and pointing out differences of opinion mate.


I don't think there's much danger of that Barry. There is a serious side to this though. The points you make about AT transparency over a range of issues, most notably the appointment of directors, are very relevant.

I don't really care about the FM forum. I regard it as a bit of a side show. But banning an individual for voicing his opinions? They'll be burning books next, on the grounds that the content contravenes their terms and conditions.

Edited by andy_youngs, 23 December 2011 - 09:27 AM.

never try and teach a pig to sing .... it wastes your time and it annoys the pig

#13 Bob Shotter

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 09:44 AM

Any time Andy you stick to your guns mate. Ive known for a long time that the AT would fail its just that the damage they are doing in the mean time is just adding more and more nails to "Angling Unities" coffin and alienating yet another generation of anglers hoping for representation.

By the time all the sad old faces have died they will have screwed it up so much that even when a new group of faces come along to try and get the job done the whole concept of "Angling Unity" and representation for all will simply have been tarred beyond recovery.

I'm sure you know all the people I'm on about as they have been lurking in angling politics as members of many "new" angling bodies (all have which have failed by making the same mistakes) for a lot of my adult life. Ironically I bet some will end up with gongs for it as well!


Budgie old chap with regard your post, can I say wile I sympathise with your frustration and can accept many comments on this page to date about the behind closed doors politics and no voting rights at the Trust as being valid, I fail to see evidence of the damage or alienation to which you refer.

Alienation and differences of opinion are often confused and differences of opinion are an existing division. They make for heathy debate.

As for damage one has to ask what damage? I might well be the new kid on the political block but at present I see no damage at present, lots of potential for damage but none having been done so far.

The Angling Trust marine side is being run by one guy who is a keen angler, he is changing things at the Trust but is out on a limb and is just a loan signing.

The arrival of Salter could well spell big trouble as he can quite easily pick up the phone and arrange lunch with his personal pal Benyon and sell his ideas and we know what they are (No pay No Say) then return to the Trust telling them well lads this is how it is going to be.

While at a meeting on Friday last at Fishmongers Hall the chap that runs the Northern Federation reminded the man from the Trust David Mitchell that when it comes to politics numbers count and he said ĎAs it happens David I represent more anglers than the Angling Trust.í Mr Mitchell's face was a picture because he knew the truth of the situation as the Trust are keen to get this federation back on board. Why the Northern Fed well they are aligned with RSA-UK org who do tell folk what is going on including info from this private meeting.

So you see there is another representative outfit running that many would like silenced, particularly some of those old guard who mean well but still believe politicians are nice and what they are doing wonít harm sea angling.

Edited by Bob Shotter, 30 December 2011 - 03:24 PM.

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#14 Worms

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 11:00 AM

Sorry to butt in Budgie but....

Bob, where have you been for the past couple of years? I've been telling you and others about how the AT have been complicit in arranging compulsory C+R on coarse fish and bag and slot limits on grayling during sea angling politics discussions....

Not to mention the divide that is being hammered between 'specimen' clubs/anglers and normal anglers due to the Trust's biased representation...come on man, get a grip...

Don't forget Bob, this spat started over a canoeist/angler issue in freshwater. As you know the AT get most of their members from the freshwater angling community...Are you planning to go freshwater with RSA.co.uk?

Edited by Worms, 23 December 2011 - 11:03 AM.

Eating wild caught fish is good for my health, reduces food miles and keeps me fit trying to catch them........it's my choice to do it, not yours to stop me!

#15 Bob Shotter

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 01:20 PM

Sorry to butt in Budgie but....

Bob, where have you been for the past couple of years? I've been telling you and others about how the AT have been complicit in arranging compulsory C+R on coarse fish and bag and slot limits on grayling during sea angling politics discussions....

Not to mention the divide that is being hammered between 'specimen' clubs/anglers and normal anglers due to the Trust's biased representation...come on man, get a grip...

Don't forget Bob, this spat started over a canoeist/angler issue in freshwater. As you know the AT get most of their members from the freshwater angling community...Are you planning to go freshwater with RSA.co.uk?


Hi ya Nick and merry Christmas to you and all the Anglers Net community.

Heaven forbid would I expect the members of RSA-UK to go joining the puddle bashers that my friend, just donít bare thinking about and therein lays just one problem facing the Angling Trust, set up as an org to represent all anglers. Talk about the impossible dream, you are so right their performance to date has not gone unmissed however I do think Mr Mitchell might just change things for the better and like it or not he was never a part of their past. Yes I do worry that he went for a job with a green outfit which he failed to get and was then snapped up by Lloyd and co as a loan signing.

I thought the problem up for discussion was the appointment of one Martin Salter to the Trust and how he had said he would willingly debate with Mr Young only for Mr Young to be silenced by forum moderators.

We had Martin join the org recently, only to test the water and go on about conspiracy theories. Once asked a few tough questions Martin was nowhere to be found. So Iím not going to hold much hope that he will come on here and talk to anglers. He may join one forum which is run by a chap who openly supported his joining the trust and will presumably have moderation on side.

The thing is as a sea angler I donít see much being said about what Martin was party to while an MP were he and his pals including Keith Arthur wrote the Angling Charter 2005 for the then governing Labour Party. He supports a licence for starters and here is a reminder for you all from that charter.

ĎLabour acknowledges the arguments put forward by the National Federation of Sea Anglers (N.F.S.A.) that many of the following actions would need to take place alongside the introduction of a sea angling rod licence.
- The proper enforcement of regulations and minimum landing sizes.
- The replacement of the Sea Fishery Committees with an agency charged with marine ecology management possibly by extending the responsibilities of the E.A.
- Or, vastly improved representation by sea anglers, charter boat interests and the tackle trade on reformed Sea Fisheries Committees.
- Restrictions on gill nets in inshore waters and around some wreck fishing grounds.
- The creation of recreational sea fisheries where commercial fishing is excluded.
- Increased protection for fish stocks from over exploitation.í

While some of the above has indeed now happened at no time has there been any justification to introduce a licence, anglers are entitled to have the exploitation of their environment controlled for the good of all not just angling. However on his recent return Martin was still spouting ĎNo Pay No Sayí So bear this in mind and be prepared for the brown stuff to start flying any time soon.
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#16 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 03:21 PM

Alienation- surely just looking at the membership numbers (or lack of them) and just a quick scroll through on any forum (even AT's own!) clearly shows this?

Dammage done- once again I surely dont have to go into details? From the freshwater side there are many worrying things but as far as I can see the sea anglers should be twice as worried!
And thats my "non indicative opinion"!

#17 Spindle

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 03:35 PM

I told him to stop being so bloody stupid, and that he should either ban me or shut up.



And so your issue is what, exactly?

#18 andy_youngs

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 05:20 PM

And so your issue is what, exactly?

That operating a system whereby someone is awarded 3 penalty points every time they infringe the rules, and anyone who accumulates more than 12 points in a month receives a ban is a rediculous way of moderating a forum.

If you break the rules then you should get a warning, and if you persist, you get banned. Simple.

Edited by andy_youngs, 23 December 2011 - 10:43 PM.

never try and teach a pig to sing .... it wastes your time and it annoys the pig

#19 Bob Shotter

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 05:32 PM

Alienation- surely just looking at the membership numbers (or lack of them) and just a quick scroll through on any forum (even AT's own!) clearly shows this?

Dammage done- once again I surely dont have to go into details? From the freshwater side there are many worrying things but as far as I can see the sea anglers should be twice as worried!


Iím sure the AT is as concerned as anyone about the numbers joining representative orgs compared to those who actively go fishing.

Forums have been by and large rather kind to the Trust of late as for their own; that we know was closed due to the amount of hostilities being voiced. From that point on the only thing that we know about what the AT gets up to on the sea angling side is what Mr Mitchell tells us about, so yes we should be worried even more so now Brother Salter is on board.

As for the damage then yes please give some detail Budgie.
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#20 andy_youngs

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 11:06 PM

this spat started over a canoeist/angler issue in freshwater.


No it didn't. It started over the simple fact that there are millions of anglers out there who also value their rights to paddle down their local river.

As you know the AT get most of their members from the freshwater angling community...Are you planning to go freshwater with RSA.co.uk?


You could do worse. After all, Martin Salter has promised me a public debate, and I aim to hold him to it ...

Edited by andy_youngs, 23 December 2011 - 11:15 PM.

never try and teach a pig to sing .... it wastes your time and it annoys the pig