Martin Salter and Mark Lloyd fail to deliver again

[Bob Shotter]

I've just had my ban from the Fishing Magic forum extended from 1 month to indefinite because of this thread (apparently I've brought them into disrepute).

 

What a tragic loss to my life ....

 

Just had a gander at this FM thing Andy and it is so similar to the one I got banned from recently, seems when the going gets tough the wimps of this world run away or use gagging as a means of defence.

 

Salter has much to answer for and I would echo what you say about Lloyd and co. Just as young Mitchell was starting to show some improvements at the Trust they saddle them self with a chap that has already let anglers down and while claiming to follow the policy of the AT which is not that clear at best. However they have indeed indicated opposition to a licence which I would wager Salter will change if he is to stay any longer than the famous gang of five.

[barry luxton]

Just had a gander at this FM thing Andy and it is so similar to the one I got banned from recently, seems when the going gets tough the wimps of this world run away or use gagging as a means of defence.

Na, not according to this guy, you got banned after this post for your insults to the members, this guy certainly ain't acting as a whimp,

 

quote: Bob Don't be so bloody condescending the councillors are not our pals and if you had half a brain you would choose to think through your posts before spouting off and getting peoples back up. Some views on here may not conform with your views but all are entitled to those views without being ridiculed.

 

You and your .org are not seen in a good light when you talk at people like that and I for one don't want ignorant people representing me. If you can't contribute in a grown up and pleasant manner then go and spout your dribble on your own forum.

[Steve Walker]

Not sure that I agree with that Steve. My hunch is that the placid, easy going majority outnumber the vocal, intolerant minority.

 

That "millions" is an exaggeration. Most anglers aren't paddlers and most paddlers aren't anglers, there's only a couple of million of each and a substantial proportion of anglers feel that sharing water with paddlers is detrimental to their interests. There may be thousands of anglers who would like to see more access for canoeing (though hundreds sounds more likely to me) but millions?

[andy_youngs]

sorry Andy, i couldn't help it. Stay here we'll look after you.

 

Thanks mate.

 

I can see you and Bob Shotter have got some differences, and I'm not sure what that's about, but I ask you, if I could pin down Martin Salter to a public debate, do you reckon the RSA could muster a contingent? I need a minimum of 200 from the RSA, 200 canoeists (absolutely no problem), and 200 from the Angling Trust (boo)

Edited December 28, 2011 by andy_youngs

[andy_youngs]

That "millions" is an exaggeration. Most anglers aren't paddlers and most paddlers aren't anglers, there's only a couple of million of each and a substantial proportion of anglers feel that sharing water with paddlers is detrimental to their interests. There may be thousands of anglers who would like to see more access for canoeing (though hundreds sounds more likely to me) but millions?

 

point taken steve, you're right. I should have said 'very many' or 'thousands'. Millions is certainly stretching it.

[barry luxton]

Thanks mate.

 

I can see you and Bob Shotter have got some differences, and I'm not sure what that's about, but I ask you, if I could pin down Martin Salter to a public debate, do you reckon the RSA could muster a contingent? I need a minimum of 200 from the RSA, 200 canoeists (absolutely no problem), and 200 from the Angling Trust (boo)

 

I think it would be very difficult to muster that many guys, unless it's something like sea fishing licences or bag limits, most won't give you any help,unless it affects them directly. From a personal point of veiw i would support you with your view of right of access, over secular selfish guys who havn't offered up any evidence to support their claim that damage is being done to the habitat or the contents within.The same applies to both freshwater and sea.

I also follow your argument of introduced specis, in particular where permission, research appears to be for a secular selfish point of veiw and they now want protected, again without any evidence of wrong doing by the canoists. Is there any evidence that the introduced fish are breeding? Are they in conflict with native specis and is there a willy nilly continuing introduction of non native specis?

 

I would like to see the trust work, however as a rsa i don't trust them. Accountability, that is why i brought in the point about members having a vote. They also need to demonstrate that the veiws of the members and the rest of the rsa are more important than again, selfish views, that include back door negotiation, while excluding the very guys who they claim to rep. It's a closely guarded secret just how many individual members both freshwater and sea the trust has on it's books, so 200?

 

Shotter has lost sight of what the org was set up for. All that has been acheived within the last six months or so is one persons veiw, opinion against the rsa and skippers and the main energy expended has been vermantly used against the very people who he is asking for support. That is something that i would never agree to.

[Bob Shotter]

Thanks mate.

 

I can see you and Bob Shotter have got some differences, and I'm not sure what that's about, but I ask you, if I could pin down Martin Salter to a public debate, do you reckon the RSA could muster a contingent? I need a minimum of 200 from the RSA, 200 canoeists (absolutely no problem), and 200 from the Angling Trust (boo)

 

Sadly I would agree with much of what Mr Luxton has to say about the support you’re likely to get Paul. While the government estimate a figure of between one and two million anglers nation-wide the true amount is completely unknown, had the question been a part of the census then who knows, but it wasn’t and now they are trying to find out with this Angling 2012 data collection. Just ask the average angler about Angling 2012 and watch the blank look you get in return. Sea anglers are simply not politically interested and few will know who Martin Salter is let alone know about his history.

 

I have been involved in sea angling politics for around four years now and the one thing I have learnt is the players are few. Less than thirty are actively involved be that running orgs, attending meetings or sitting on the local in shore authorities and as Barry has said getting others to support you is all but impossible some like Mr Luxton actually believe sitting behind a keyboard will do the trick.

 

Finally what do you hope to achieve were Martin to oblige and enter into debate, as a former politician he will be expert in telling you what you might want to hear but can you trust him to carry through on his recent promise to toe the line re Angling Trust policy when he has clearly set out what he believes is best, like the ‘No pay No Say’ phrase he so firmly believes in?

 

Like it or not what will count is now he is a part of the Angling Trust, Martin Salter can and in all probability will see to it that RSAs become licenced in his secret lunch time meetings, and with some commission for his paymasters attached to the agreement?

.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Deene'0

[barry luxton]

...........................some like Mr Luxton actually believe sitting behind a keyboard will do the trick.

 

I will go further, using it correctly it is a very powerful tool, reaches parts and all that, using it incorrectly can make you look like one.

[barry luxton]

Hello Andy, link to the trusts position on access, both legal and illegal with regards to boating and canoes. Any comments, in particular to damage caused by canoes on the habitat.

 

Would you also expand a little with regards to the local issue of the introduced fish and the conflict with canoes. Enlighten us, i am aware this has been a heavy personal interest of yours for a period of time, cheers.

 

http://www.anglingtrust.net/page.asp?section=544

Edited December 28, 2011 by barry luxton

[Bob Shotter]

I will go further, using it correctly it is a very powerful tool, reaches parts and all that, using it incorrectly can make you look like one.

 

Given the amount of concern by you and others with regard my posts then my keyboard technique must be a lot better than yours.

 

You see Barry there is no polite way of dealing with sea angling misrepresentatives, well not in my book at least and I don’t give a flying hoot what you think on that score.