600 or 10,000 which is it ?

[Steve Coppolo]

I'm (personally) much more concerned as to what Jon Shaw/Defra/Environment(gov) would impose on us 'willy nilly' if they didn't have some constituted body (bodies) to consult with first.

 

I've always said, let them impose what they want. They'll do it anyway, regardless of what anyone from RSA has to say, and we can oppose them for ever and a day if we have to. However, if we negotiate with them and accept whatever measly crumbs they offer in return for the heap of restrictions in the pipeline, we will have been seen to accept them. Think about that for a second. Leon & Co are telling Defra/government what you and I, (and anyone else who goes sea angling), are willing to accept. Can you really say, hand on heart, that you are happy with that? I'm not.

Edited July 19, 2008 by Steve Coppolo

[H.A.]

Dear Dogs

 

All you have ever done is be very rude to me, even taking the Mickey out of my dyslexia.

 

That's a very personal and bitter thing to say ... best kept to PMs.

I don't have a 'beef' with your (alleged) disablity and have spent most of my life coping with mine and helping others. Your views about fishery non-management do concern me; but at least you speak with one voice.

 

Best dropped.

 

However, if we negotiate with them and accept whatever measly crumbs they offer in return for the heap of restrictions in the pipeline, we will have been seen to accept them. Think about that for a second. Leon & Co are telling Defra/government what you and I, (and anyone else who goes sea angling), are willing to accept.

 

Steve, as you know 'we' do not negotiate; we go to listen (if we can ... I can't afford it anymore!) and receive 'presentations' on this and that. I don't like it at all.

Government employ a layer of bureaucrats to 'deal' with us .... yes, it is a waste!

I'm usually happy to make my views known directly, but fall short of telling Rodney and his gang what to do for the best.

That's why we have consultations and then compromises which no one is entirely happy about.

This is called democratic government and believe me there are many occasions when I pray for a strong dictator.

Nonetheless, I work within the 'rules' ... don't we all?

 

I can't accept the non-participation/bury your head-in-the-sand kind of politics 'Dogs' and others want.

If you're not happy, make your views known (as you do), participate if you want to, contribute if you feel the need and shut up if you are ovine.

 

[thedogs]

My views are based on where all this has got RSA so far. Don’t kid yourselves into thinking that the status quos would be any different if RSA had no representation.

 

I was told yesterday that there is a article in the Fishing News by BASS regarding the amount of gill nets being used by commercials inshore. I must say I haven’t read it yet but will do so I know the facts. But I was told that BASS are saying that some boats are using 35k of nets, well that is a physical impossibility. That amount of bass nets wouldn’t fit on a 35-foot boat.

The only way that amount of gear could be used would be if it was fixed ray nets (often called tangle nets) these nets have very large meshes that will not fill up with weed and other rubbish if left for long periods of time. Bass nets are not often fixed now days they are mostly drifted. Can you imagine drifting 35k of 90 mil or even 110 mil mesh nets. It would be impossible to keep tabs on that amount of nets. If this gear were fixed the first fleet would be so full of weed by the time the last fleet had been shot it would be impossible to haul.

 

Basically what I’m saying is that I feel BASS have put out so much misinformation over the years that its not surprising no one will listen anymore.

 

If you want to go up against a force like the commercial fleet, a force that has public opinion behind it, you need to be correct in the information that is put out, other wise you lose credibility.

 

Now as I keep saying my fishing is almost as good as it’s ever been, and I am old enough to have seen the remarkable catches of yesteryear.

 

I’m not saying this fishing doesn’t need looking after it does! But it needs looking after by a body that knows what its doing its onions and that sure as hell aint BASS, SACN or the ruddy NFSA.

 

Personally I would trust the commercial fleet to wake up and smell the coffee, then start the look after the fishery, rather than it be left to RSAs motley crew.

 

As Steve C said no representation is far better than bad representation, which is I must say what we have now!

[Steve Coppolo]

If you're not happy, make your views known (as you do), participate if you want to, contribute if you feel the need and shut up if you are ovine.

 

 

Not sure what "ovine" means without looking in a dictionary, Ada, but no one should have to shut up, "ovine" or not.

 

It may suit the arguments of those involved to say that the opposition they face is from just a small percentage of anglers and therefore not worth considering. However, how many anglers on the beaches and out on the boats actually know what's going on with their sport? How many anglers have ever heard of Leon Roskilly, or the SACN? I would hazard an educated guess and say hardly any. 0.1% perhaps? Who's the one, if anyone, who should be shutting up?

Edited July 20, 2008 by Steve Coppolo

[Steve Coppolo]

Steve, as you know 'we' do not negotiate; we go to listen (if we can ... I can't afford it anymore!) and receive 'presentations' on this and that. I don't like it at all.

Government employ a layer of bureaucrats to 'deal' with us .... yes, it is a waste!

I'm usually happy to make my views known directly, but fall short of telling Rodney and his gang what to do for the best.

That's why we have consultations and then compromises which no one is entirely happy about.

This is called democratic government and believe me there are many occasions when I pray for a strong dictator.

Nonetheless, I work within the 'rules' ... don't we all?

 

 

 

Not strictly true Ada. Those within Defra and government don't know anything about RSA other than what they are told by our representatives. It's what some of them have been saying for the last several years that bothers me. You talk about listening to presentations, who gave the presentation on Mullet fishing at the meeting in Whitehall that we both attended a few years ago? It wasn't anyone from Defra or the government, but they were there listening intently and making notes. That presentation by the National Mullet Club might have made it clear what that particular club's very small membership want from the fishery, but by no means represented the views of sea anglers in general. Unfortunately, those suits present don't differentiate between minority groups and the vast majority of sea anglers. How democratic is that?

[H.A.]

How many anglers have ever heard of Leon Roskilly, or the SACN?

 

Your comments are coming over strong as a personal vendetta between yourself and Leon, Steve.

 

Shame.

 

[steve good]

Hi All

 

Interesting discusson.

 

Good and valid points on boths sides

 

As I see it RSA reps put the BMP package to DEFRA, the package was to big and contained some mis-information

 

RSA reps forced the commercials to defend the existing mls for bass because the only winner was the French, just like the Tope is now. The new Tope laws will doing nothing to protect or enhence the Tope fishhery as the French catch enormous amounts of Tope and will continue to do so.

 

Not only did commercials defend the Bass mls but countered the RSA reps with licences and bag limits for all anglers

 

We have now reached a position were commercials and anglers will fight each other tooth and nail every step of the way also anglers are spilt over certain things (a no win situation for all perhaps)

 

What is clear to me is that when RSA reps try to get Defra to do something which is then opposed by the commercials Defra are then placed in a awkward position so they take the easy way out

 

It must be pointed out that the GREENS have more power in and over Defra than anyone else and therefore the spilt between commercials and anglers is easy to exploit by the GREENS and Defra

 

All or most of our fish spend alot of time outside our 6 mile limit and therefore all European fishermen can catch them

 

RSA reps continue to make the mistake in trying to get Defra to discrimante against English fishermen by asking for new laws to apply inside the 6 mile limit which then benifits all other EU member states. Making new laws on migratory fish inside our 6 mile limit does NOT protect or enhence a fishery

 

RSA reps need to realise that we in this country live in a European State and its laws, one of which is the CFP, If RSA reps were not so short sighted they would realise the situation that we now have between commercials and anglers has been brought about because RSA reps have approached Defra and not the EU Commission

 

I would not have minded the mls increase for bass if it had been for all EU members states I only want a level playing field with my compeditors.

 

If the spilt between anglers and commercials continues or worstens then we will all lose out as the GREENS Marine Bill progresses.

 

Fighting amongst yourselves or with others NEVER COMES TO ANY GOOD

 

steve

Edited July 20, 2008 by steve good

[Steve Coppolo]

Your comments are coming over strong as a personal vendetta between yourself and Leon, Steve.

 

Shame.

 

 

No vendetta Ada, just mightily hacked off by someone with zero angling credentials, punting out so much duff information, to so many in positions of power, with little or no mandate from the anglers he claims to represent. Questions should be asked and I'll continue to ask them. Ducking questions and running for cover is what politicians do in the hope that those asking will get fed up and go away.

[glennk]

Hi HA a few points I would like to make. Primarily I just want to say that what Sam is saying isnt bitter and twisted, I really dont want to get into your disputes but I have witnessed you make fun of his dislexia on here, so really you cant deny, and as you did it in the open Sam has every right to reply.

 

Secondly you need to make up your mind if we are individuals with a point of view or whingers. Just because our views differ from yours doesnt make them any less genuine. I have big concerns about Leon and SACN, an organisation with 600 members, claiming they represnt a lot more anglers than they actually do. Indeed its not just on here Ive said it but I also told the guys from DEFRA Anthony Hynes and his glove puppet from natural England - Side show Bob when they came to the North East to ask our points of view.

 

Also Leon - Fair enough you say "Just to reassure you that membership by an individual doesn't automatically apply to any organisation to which that member belongs (that would be ridiculous!)." Yes indeed that would be ridiculous, but that is what your attempted to show with your vagueness regarding SACN membership. So how about you work out just how many individuals your organisation does represent and you use that figure on any future correspondence with DEFRA. Its best for all involved if you stop your vague and deceptive attempts to make your organisation look larger than it actually is.

[thedogs]

The problem is ignorance on behalf of 99% of RSA.. BASS put out info and I expect most of their member take this as the truth, where as in fact it may be missinformation.

 

If RSA wants to get anywhere they need to stop ALL the anti commercial properganda and try to enducate themselves with the facts.

 

BASS, SACN and the ruddy NFSA I think have and will continue to damage RSA with their half cocked efforts.

 

I just hope that in my area commercial effort continues at the level it is at now. There has been a large decrease in commercial effort over the past fifteen years. Now the fishing has got better and better yearafter year.

 

I hope that the commercial fishermen left realise this fact and do all they can to stop others moving in.

 

RSA got it wrong from the beginning to my mind, they should have tried talking to the commercial fishermen that are left instead of slagging them off with all the wall of death talk, and other misstruths.