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#11 andy_youngs

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 08:38 PM

I asked for my topic to be closed andy because it went personal. .Unfortunately I made the mistake of being dragged in. As opposed to keeping to the known facts.

I'll try not to make the same mistake again. It's relevant though because I reckon the Recreational Sea Anglers have got quite a bit in common with Canoe England at the moment. I do a bit of sea fishing, and I'd like to join the RSA, but I won't if they're affiliated to AT. It's all very confusing.

The AT's latest letter to Canoe England strikes me as akin to trying to put a fire out with petrol.


never try and teach a pig to sing .... it wastes your time and it annoys the pig

#12 Sportsman

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 09:05 PM

They can  acknowledge  it existence without wanting to encourage it.

I have no axe to grind in the UK anymore. I don't live there.

When I did live i Scotland all of my personal experience of canoeists on rivers were negative.

You seem to want to portray canoeists as these gentle people, slipping silently down the river, disturbing no-one and causing no upset.

The reality is a bunch of thugs screaming and shouting to each other, abusing other users, coming ashore on private property, lighting fires and leaving litter. Parking your cars and trailers on private property, blocking field gateways and generally showing no respect for anyone or anything.

Maybe you will be granted greater access when you demonstrate that you deserve it.


Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be.

 

 

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity

 

 

 

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#13 andy_youngs

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 09:18 PM

Ok Andy we will leave out the bit were you use your canoe to trespass, party and light fires on other peoples land if it makes you feel better.

 

When did the private land owners give the waterways to the citizens? 

I've never partied and lit fires on other peoples property without their permission. I wish you wouldn't misrepresent me in public like that (complaint to the mod, please caution this person).

 

You ask when did private land owners give the waterways to the citizens. My understanding is that the landowners never owned them in the first place. But they tried to claim them them as such in 1830


never try and teach a pig to sing .... it wastes your time and it annoys the pig

#14 andy_youngs

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 09:25 PM

They can  acknowledge  it existence without wanting to encourage it.

I have no axe to grind in the UK anymore. I don't live there.

When I did live i Scotland all of my personal experience of canoeists on rivers were negative.

You seem to want to portray canoeists as these gentle people, slipping silently down the river, disturbing no-one and causing no upset.

The reality is a bunch of thugs screaming and shouting to each other, abusing other users, coming ashore on private property, lighting fires and leaving litter. Parking your cars and trailers on private property, blocking field gateways and generally showing no respect for anyone or anything.

Maybe you will be granted greater access when you demonstrate that you deserve it.

Oh sportsman, that's just a vitriolic outpouring. You've labled canoeists as a bnunch of environmental thugs who are intent on wreaking havoc upon the countrysite, but it's not true.


never try and teach a pig to sing .... it wastes your time and it annoys the pig

#15 Phone

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 12:08 AM

andy_y,

 

I'm not being controntational, at least not trying.  I have never received a "good or bad" answer to the word "raparian" as it applies in the UK.  The EA and dictionalry says, """"Law. a person who owns land on the bank of a natural watercourse or body of water."""" The EA (in 2013) says the UK has "Raparian owners"  aside from what the EA says (which is full and total responsibility execpt as noted). What does that mean (to you and canoests).  I don't know how it could be more clear??

 

Also, you are as bad as your accusors.  You respond to Sportsman with, "it's not true".  You sure?  100%?  Maybe you would change that statement to the "majority"?  Should that be true - how many irresponsible canoes does it take to turn 150 shorebound anglers into anti-furnaces.

 

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#16 barry luxton

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 06:42 AM

according to what's below, the uk is left behind in it's dinosaur approach to this modern err problem of access, where everyone else including Scotland have simplified access. Whats the difference with uk waters that makes it soo difficult, Same question I have asked previously.

 

In the England and Wales the canoeist does not have an automatic right to launch on to any river. The legal situation is different from all other countries in the world, where canoeists are generally able to paddle large and small non-tidal rivers without seeking permission, as the beds of these rivers are not privately owned and not vested in riparian owners.  
 
The Government commissioned report "Water-Based Sport and Recreation – the facts" published in December 2001 established -

  •     There are 4,540 kilometres of canal and rivers with navigation rights. 
  •     There are in excess of 65,000 kilometres of rivers with NO ACCESS
  •     Successive governments have encouraged canoeist to seek to negotiate access
  •     agreements. These have only achieved 812 kilometres of highly restricted access.
  •     Canoeing is a clean physical activity enjoyed by over two million people each year
  •     causing no damage and minimal disturbance.
  •     Canoeing is also a sport, which delivers Olympic and international medals.
  •     Canoeing is a sport and recreational activity for all regardless of age or ability
 
Scotland

In Scotland the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 comprehensively codified into Scots law the ancient tradition of the right to universal access to the land in Scotland. The act specifically establishes a right to be on land for recreational, educational and certain other purposes and a right to cross land. The rights exist only if they are exercised responsibly, as specified in the Scottish Outdoor Access Code.

Access rights apply to any non-motorised activities, including walking, cycling, horse-riding and wild camping. They also allow access on inland water for canoeing, rowing, sailing and swimming.


Edited by barry luxton, 11 August 2013 - 06:46 AM.

 Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.

 
New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.
 
Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.
 
Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.
 
new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.
 
Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because  they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are.. 


#17 Sportsman

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 07:50 AM

Oh sportsman, that's just a vitriolic outpouring. You've labled canoeists as a bnunch of environmental thugs who are intent on wreaking havoc upon the countrysite, but it's not true.

That vitriolic outpouring was based on my own personal experience and the experience of friends who are  generally  farmers, gamekeepers and ghillies in Scotland.

This is what happens on rivers like the North Esk on a weekend. Its called reality.


Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be.

 

 

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity

 

 

 

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http://www.safetypublishing.ie/


#18 Leon Roskilly

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 08:56 AM

I reckon the Recreational Sea Anglers have got quite a bit in common with Canoe England ............

 

I guess that would change quickly if bunches of canoes surrounded charter-boats and piers, splashing and larking about in front of anglers, tangling lines etc (And as sea-anglers get a much better understanding of the problems that freshwater anglers endure).



Fortunately the sea is a big place, unlike the more intimate waters where freshwater anglers fish.
 

 

Kayak angling is well able to co-exist with existing sea-angling activities and is one of the fastest growing sectors of sea-angling, encouraged by the Angling Trust.  (see http://www.anglingtr...asp?section=646 ).

 

(And for freshwater kayak anglers, AT Kayak membership also includes access to river and canal areas not controlled by clubs at reduced rates - see link above)

 



The same sort of conflict would arise if (say) an archery club was invaded by a gang of folk kicking a ball about on the range, or a game of cricket interrupted by golfers playing through on the pitch during a game.

 

Kayakers enjoying a quite paddle when a group of jet-skiers decides to play. (Opening the 'free-access' genie could backfire spectacularly!)

Some activities just don't mix well.  


Edited by Leon Roskilly, 11 August 2013 - 09:37 AM.

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#19 barry luxton

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 02:05 PM

 (Opening the 'free-access' genie could backfire spectacularly!)
 

appears that the rest of the world including Scotland do not share the same opinion.

 

In the England and Wales the canoeist does not have an automatic right to launch on to any river. The legal situation is different from all other countries in the world, where canoeists are generally able to paddle large and small non-tidal rivers without seeking permission, as the beds of these rivers are not privately owned and not vested in riparian owners. 


 Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.

 
New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.
 
Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.
 
Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.
 
new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.
 
Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because  they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are.. 


#20 Phone

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 06:12 PM

All,

 

Once again I'll ask.  Is this not "current law"?  It was published in 2012 and ammended in 2013.

 

http://www.environme...oods/31626.aspx

 

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