11 Whitby Fishermen in court for 58 breaches of fishery rules.

[Guest stevie cop]

The thing is Ken, we don't break the rules to cut corners or to make more profit. It's done to shave valuable seconds off of various "tasks". If my arse was burning in a building, I wouldn't want those outside to be obeying ridiculous, arse covering H&S regulations! I'd want them to break the law and get me out...........QUICK!!

 

I know it seems that I'm off on a tangent, but I'm trying to make a point about the enforcement of the quota system. The system has been put in place, because it had to be put in place. Something had to be seen to have been done to preserve the fish stocks. Those that put it in place quickly realised that it wasn't really workable, so they ignored all the fiddling that they knew was going on. Now they are taking a few individuals, and making examples out of them because again, something has to be seen to have been done!

 

As I said earlier in the thread, if the quota system were enforced to the letter, the fishing industry would collapse overnight. They can't let that happen, so they turn a blind eye. Then they knick a few fishermen here and there to give the impression that they are on top of it all. Rubbish! What they should be doing is scrapping the system and replacing it with something that IS workable, then enforcing it to the letter.

[Guest jay_con]

The fishing industry as you know it now would change Steve. I dont think it would collapse for one moment. Just change, and if change is needed to ensure the industry continues in some form then change could be a good thing. Continue as we are : (With Black fish on a huge scale and noboddy trying to stop it. Fat cats getting fatter whilst small time fishermen and law abiders suffer), then you will see the fishing industry collapse, just like it did in Canada.

[Guest stevie cop]

If the cost of running a boat and paying the crews wages comes to more than what can be earnt from the allowed quota, no sane man would continue to fish for living. If the quota system were to be enforced to the letter, there wouldn't be any commercial fishermen left.

 

That's why they have to scrap it and start again.

[Ken Davison South Wales]

Hi Steve,

 

I had a look at your profile and now I know why you and many others who work in the same field break H&S rules.

 

I am sure your bosses would not try to make a hero out to be a wrong doer and if they did there would be an enormous out cry from the public you serve so well.

 

Your service is possibly one of the only ones who could at times ignore H&S and be quoted as heroes.

 

In the construction industry it is not an option, H&S is written in slabs of granite as it is in many other commercial and industrial works.

 

I do agree 100% if the quotas do not work then they have to be changed, but having said that they have been in place a long time and I feel that instead of trying to bring about change some fishermen have exploited the situation.

 

I read almost all of the information on this site and related areas indicated by Leon and others and to date all of the information relating to commercial activities looks extremely complicated and messy.

 

Leon directed me to a site, which showed the EU fishing areas and quotas per area, and the first thing that struck me was all of the straight lines, which formed the basis for quota allocation.

 

Through out the ages politicians have drawn straight lines across the world and you only have to look at Africa as an example to see it does not work.

 

I am hoping this new charter will resolve this situation in a fair and clean-cut way, only time will tell.

[Guest stevie cop]

Yes Ken, after what can be certainly be described as a fair trial period it is clear that the quota system has failed in it's objectives. It has failed to protect the fish stocks and it has encouraged the fishermen to break the rules. For whatever reason, it has failed and should be replaced with something else.

 

With an increase in MLS and mesh sizes so that all the fish caught commercially were mature, ie, they have spawned at least twice, would there be any need for quotas? The bigger fish would be worth more, so fishing effort could be reduced for the same returns. If the commercial sector abused the no quota system, it would only be them that suffered. Therefore they would be ultimately responsible for fisheries management, something that they've wanted for years.

 

With this system, or something like it, discards would be minimal, every fish in the sea would be given the chance to reach maturity and reproduce before being caught and commercial fishermen wouldn't need to break the law. By catch could be all but eliminated by abolishing mixed fisheries. It probably wouldn't be as simple as that, but I'm sure something along those lines would be better than what we have now, which is more or less a free for all and doesn't allow fish to reach maturity.

 

The first measure in achieving a sustainable fishery must be that fish must reach an age of maturity before being targetted by commercial fishermen. It has been said that to move forward we must learn to work together with the commercial fishermen. I for one would be happy to push for change along the lines mentioned above, and I'm sure most of the commercial sector would would too.

[Guest jay_con]

Steve Coppolo:

Yes Ken, after what can be certainly be described as a fair trial period it is clear that the quota system has failed in it's objectives. It has failed to protect the fish stocks and it has encouraged the fishermen to break the rules. For whatever reason, it has failed and should be replaced with something else.

 

With an increase in MLS and mesh sizes so that all the fish caught commercially were mature, ie, they have spawned at least twice, would there be any need for quotas? The bigger fish would be worth more, so fishing effort could be reduced for the same returns. If the commercial sector abused the no quota system, it would only be them that suffered. Therefore they would be ultimately responsible for fisheries management, something that they've wanted for years.

 

With this system, or something like it, discards would be minimal, every fish in the sea would be given the chance to reach maturity and reproduce before being caught and commercial fishermen wouldn't need to break the law. By catch could be all but eliminated by abolishing mixed fisheries. It probably wouldn't be as simple as that, but I'm sure something along those lines would be better than what we have now, which is more or less a free for all and doesn't allow fish to reach maturity.

 

The first measure in achieving a sustainable fishery must be that fish must reach an age of maturity before being targetted by commercial fishermen. It has been said that to move forward we must learn to work together with the commercial fishermen. I for one would be happy to push for change along the lines mentioned above, and I'm sure most of the commercial sector would would too.

Nice in theory Ken,

 

There are ways and means to catch smaller fish in bigger mesh nets. Im pretty sure these methods are already used by some even with the current mesh sizes so what is to stop that continuing under this new system?

[Ken Davison South Wales]

I honestly don't know the answer to that one, all I can say is they will be stealing their way out of a job and will have no one to blame except themselves.

 

It certainly looks as if Captain Birdseye is a bit of a pirate behind the scenes,

[wurzel]

Origanily quotas were never deviced to protect fish stocks,20 years ago they were a way of shareing out fish stocks amoungst EU member states based on historic catches.e.g: the Dutch and Belgium fishermen with thier beamer fleet have traditionally fished for flat fish,so they got the lions share of plaice and sole, the UK got the bigger share of cod and haddock,some how France seems to have got alot of every thing.

When the figures were being collected UK fishermen fearing the tax man under declared thier catches, while the forhign fishermen being more awear of what was afoot overdeclared thier catches, so the quotas were based on inaccurate figures to start with. Cutting quota for concervation came later.

But there is plenty of cod quota, enough for every body who wants to buy or lease it, but it cost money, quite a lot of money.Did you know that the Royal Bank of Scotland is the biggest holder of quota in the UK? It might have been them the whitby lads were fiddling.

The smaller under 10 meter boats like mine are allacated a small monthly quota by the government, I have the option to drop out of that system, and buy quota,

It would cost well over £100,000 to have enough fish to be legal, that is just not possible.

Big Cod and his anglers can and do catch and land more cod than I can legaly per month,

and the sole quota is a joke, no historic rights,

As I've said on here before, the Quota system is crap and needs scrapping.

 

@Sping@ Why would fishermen alter nets to catch undersized fish? can't you give us any credit at all.

[Davy Holt]

wurzel:

 

When the figures were being collected UK fishermen fearing the tax man under declared thier catches

Ahhh so even then they were on the fiddle.. nothing changes there eh???

[Ken Davison South Wales]

So if the quota system is scrapped will they have to compensate the holders?

 

At the moment close to our shores can a sole quota boat fish?