Bass Management Plan

[Guest @AUTUMN@]

Quote

the bmp will give us a platform but every serious angler in this country must respond possitively to this consultation and do the business whether they agree with it or not.

 

Sounds like you are the party whip then Stavey.

 

I think the bmp as it is will cause more problems than it will solve.

 

 

For anyone not in the know - Wurzel is a commercial fisherman.

[Leon Roskilly]

Stoaty,

 

It's interfering by taking out too many fish of a particular species or size that causes problems, not letting nature alone as much as possible to work things out for itself.

 

CEFAS is the UK organisation that constantly monitors UK fish stocks, with ongoing survey work.

 

They are the scientists who have been providing advice to the government on the Bass Management Plan, and who will as a matter of course, continue to monitor the management of all sea stocks.

 

http://www.cefas.co.uk

 

Tight Lines - leon

[Golden Years]

I think the bmp as it is will cause more problems than it will solve.

Hi Wurzel, thanks for replying. I was really hoping for some responses like yours and Stoatys' I am not too sure that I buy into the "nature will balance things out" argument either. It seems a little woolly to me especially when you factor in the undeniable fact that the major influence on nature is man. It is unavoidable, we (man) has to fix the problems of our own creation.

 

Could you elaborate on the problems you think it would cause?

 

Thanks,

Edited November 3, 2005 by Golden Years

[dale]

i quite like the look of the plan and anything that helps the stock the better.

we have only just started to catch bass on a regular basis and hope that they're numbers grow as we had what once the finest cod fishery in the uk and they need to fill that void.

Bass may be our saviour. hopefully these huge shoals may head north in bigger numbers.

 

ps how big a fish is 45cm?

as the fish we get are 2-4lbs. i know 36cm fish are about a 1lb. never actually measured anything above 2lbs and all my table kills are about 2-3lbs as anything bigger goes back.

[stavey]

Sounds like you are the party whip then Stavey.

 

Your so funny wurzel no i am not the party whip just your average see angler who happens to care about his pastime, just endorcing a few facts and if some people see it as a bit of troop rallying? so be it.....

[Bob Jerunkel]

i quite like the look of the plan and anything that helps the stock the better.

we have only just started to catch bass on a regular basis and hope that they're numbers grow as we had what once the finest cod fishery in the uk and they need to fill that void.

Bass may be our saviour. hopefully these huge shoals may head north in bigger numbers.

 

ps how big a fish is 45cm?

as the fish we get are 2-4lbs. i know 36cm fish are about a 1lb. never actually measured anything above 2lbs and all my table kills are about 2-3lbs as anything bigger goes back.

 

Dale

a 45cm bass will weigh around 2 1/4 lbs.

You are lucky that most of your bass are between 2 and 4 lbs.

The reason for this is that bass are as you say newcomers to your area and therefore haven't been hammered by gill netters yet.

Once word gets out that there are bass ther in numbers it wont take long before they become fully exploited.

With the current MLS of 36cm it wont take long for the netters to wipe out the bigger fish and all you will be left with will be the fish under 36cm, same as the rest of the country at the moment.

I think the problems wuzel can see are more to do with problems for commercial fishermen not the bass themselves or the other fish.

[Ian Burrett]

Yes but then we had large cod, another voracious fish that used to prey on the bass and help control it's numbers.

 

Still nobody answers the question. Who is going to monitor the effect of the plan on other creatures, and if it goes wrong what will be done about it?

 

Will it take the extinction of the allis shad before any body realises there may be a problem.

 

If you guys arn't asking yourself these questions then you shouldn't be doing it, and I am not with you.

 

Hi Stoaty

 

Regards the Allis Shad

The species has declined over much of Europe and is virtually absent from many rivers in the UK where it once spawned.

Details at http://www.cheshire-biodiversity.org.uk/fish-shad.htm

 

Can you blame the bass for the decline of Allis Shad in your local river. I think not.

 

And what is the alternative to the BMP

 

On another thread I posted the following

 

................................................................................

.................................................

 

Big Fish Important in the Gene Pool

June 23, 2005 — By Reuters

LONDON — Anglers chasing big fish and leaving the small fry might be doing far more harm than good according to marine scientists in the United States.

 

Charles Birkeland at the University of Hawaii and Paul Dayton at Scripps Institution of Oceanography in California have discovered that big fish are vital to maintaining populations, and taking them does crucial damage.

 

Not only does the fertility of big females increase dramatically compared with small fish, but the offspring of big fish tend to grow bigger and faster than those of little ones, New Scientist magazine reported.

 

This means that taking the big fish weakens the gene pool by effectively favoring the fish that grow more slowly and stay small.

................................................................................

.........................................

 

In reality, RSA's and Defra should be also implementing Cod, plaice and many other species management plans. All species should have at least one year of spawning before they can be taken.

 

When the BMP gets official endorsement, it will be an historical event as the first legislation in the UK that has been changed with angling in mind. Other legislation is already being planned and will follow.

 

The situation has been clouded where you fish because of the big breeding year of 2002. But what is the alternative? Do nothing and have the seas full of immature fish. If you follow reports around the country then the shore fishing is in serious decline so something has to change.

 

The BMP team haven't plucked their figures from the air but have used successful templates from around the world.

 

Defra scientists will have studied the implications of this, and wouldn't allow it if they considered it bad news. You ask if it goes wrong whose going to do something about it. I am sure Wurzel and colleagues with their nets could soon wipe them all out.

Edited November 3, 2005 by Ian Burrett

[wurzel]

quote

I am sure Wurzel and colleagues with their nets could soon wipe them all out.

 

I would hope not all of them. we didn't manage it in the past.

[stavey]

quote

I am sure Wurzel and colleagues with their nets could soon wipe them all out.

 

I would hope not all of them. we didn't manage it in the past.

 

How do commercial fishermen work then wurzel? perhaps we are looking at it all wrong then, as we see it you find a mark where there are fish! you work that area until it is not productive for you anymore( after removing al if not most of the fish that were their) then move on to another and do the same and so on? are we wrong to think like this?

[Leon Roskilly]

The situation has been clouded where you fish because of the big breeding year of 2002.

 

Stoaty fishes the Medway which contains a large dedicated bass nursery area around Kings North Power Station, where warm water gets pumped into the estuary all year round, enhancing the survival of fry.

 

The river has undergone great changes in recent years, with the closure of the naval dockyards, but perhaps more importantly the cutting back of discharges from the upstream paper mills.

 

Talking to one of the EA guys, he has pointed out the areas where saltmarsh is becoming re-established, all along the estuary, and the amount of fry (of all species) feeding there now.

 

The river now holds more fish of more species than ever before, and as he says 'things are getting better in the Medway all of the time now'.

 

What is missing is populations of adult fish.

 

The school bass shoals that the Medway contains, partly as a result of the successful nursery area, are the fish that populate much of the south and east coast, and the greater Thames/Medway estuary.

 

Allowing those small Medway fish to increase in size is going to significantly increase the sport of anglers, and the catch of netsmen over a large geographic area.

 

And perhaps when stoaty is catching a reasonable number of larger bass, his dismay at hooking small schoolies now may seem as having been worth it.

 

Continuing taking bass at 36cm, rather than 45cm is going to do nothing to increase the number of small bass in the River Medway, which will increase anyway as the river becomes cleaner, the habitat more healthy and the food supply increases.

 

I doubt that increased spawning success, as a result of more spawners, will increase the number of schoolies in the Medway.

 

Bass are a fecund species and it doesn't take many spawners to fill the pot, and once full, the excess is eliminated (nature always produces an excess, and hwether that's 10 tonnes or 1,000 tonnes it is reabsorbed through limits on food supply, increased predation etc).

 

What those extra spawners will do is to increase the genetic diversity of bass, making the population more robust in the face of environmental change, and ensuring that there are big fish, able to survive a succession of hard winters and continue producing new generations whereas the 'recruitment fishery' that we have now, relying on juvenile early spawners to regenerate the population, is at significant risk of a succession of as little as three bad winters.

 

The other thing to remember is that the mesh restrictions that will accompany the MLS, to prevent unnecesary bycatch of bass under 45cm, wherever the netting takes 10% or mor of bass, will also protect all other species, including Allis shad etc.

 

As indeed will other proposals in the pipeline that will follow this, assuming that these initial measures attract the support that they deserve.

 

 

 

Tight Lines - leon

Edited November 3, 2005 by Leon Roskilly