Compromise

[JB]

On page 15 of the first “Alliance” thread, “tugmistress” posted this report:

 

Cod Crusaders demand a pull out

09/11/2005 17:38

 

Fisheries minister Ross Finnie has rebuffed further calls for Scotland to withdraw from the Common Fisheries Policy.

 

MSPs today responded to a petition presented by Fraserburgh's Cod Crusaders, who are demanding a pull-out.

 

But Mr Finnie says the industry's problems were not caused by European policy.

Going up in smoke today, Fraserburgh boat the Zenith. It caught fire yesterday and twenty firefighters spent the night battling the blaze.

 

For skipper Graham Reid it's a disaster, the boat provideds a living for not only himself but his two sons.

 

The cod crusaders who've compiled a petition calling for withdrawal from the common fisheries policy would say the smouldering wreck at Fraserburgh harbour today is symbolic of the state of our fleet.

 

The cod crusaders argue that the save whats left of this vital industry we must withdraw from the cfp. And it seems two hundred and fifty thousand people agree with them.)

 

 

The Scottish Parliament's petitions committee today considered a written response from fisheries minister ross finnie saying its in scotland's interests to work within the cfp. The minister claims the industrys problems are not caused by european policy. The committe is now to seek the cod crusaders views on the minister's stance. For the Fraserburgh campaigners it's good news, allowing their fight to continue.

 

from http://northtonight.grampiantv.co.uk/conte...=7796&newsType=

 

Thanks, Paula, for the post.

 

I would like to ask members of the forum what compromise they are prepared to make for the benefit of their sport.

 

If I were a big wheel in RSA circles I would want to back the Cod Crusaders to the hilt. I would also encourage all UK commercials to do the same.

 

Clearly, withdrawing from the CFP and managing our own fishery would be beneficial to all. And RSA should have a say in the management.

 

My impression is that there are a few on this forum that believe the politicians are on the side of RSA. However, I think that there are even more, like myself, who are sceptical.

 

Personally, I don’t think the politicians would allow withdrawal from the CFP. In my opinion, they care little for commercial fishing and only appear to let it exist to keep DEFRA alive and kicking, and, as I have said before, look upon RSA as potential votes and a possible source of income via future licence fees. However, if a RSA/Commercial alliance was formed on this matter, it would give both parties mutual credibility; but most importantly, it would be something the politicians would not expect, and therefore would severely rattle the political cage. Politics, like life, is all about compromise. We may not get what we ask for the first time of asking, but I am sure we will make progress and eventually be given something beneficial to both parties. Then we can regroup and try again.

 

Many on here are purists. However, perhaps we should keep in mind the old adage “necessity makes strange bedfellows”, and consider whether or not the means justify the end?

 

JB

Edited November 27, 2005 by John and Michele

[Guest Feels like Winter to me]

Hi John,

 

Ive posted up my thoughts on this issue before, but as you say that Sea anglers should back the proposals of the cod crusaders, perhaps you would be kind enough to go further and explain why. I have always said I am not pulled in either direction on the Euro thing being neither for or against. The only thing I am against is being brain washed by the Anti Eu brigade. Dont you find it somehow strange that there is never a positive story about the eu in our press ??? (and I do mean never), just silly stories about straight bananna's and square melons.

Anyway my view is that if you are to propose we leave the cfp you must have a workable replacement with clear policies. Simply saying we must leave because it is no good really isnt good enough in itself. What alternative has been suggested and why will it work better than the cfp?

In conclusion I would like to add that I do not believe the cfp is responsible for the state of our seas today, rather I see the failure to enforce the cfp as the reason behind it's failure, If the cfp was enforced several years ago (when the breeding stock was a lot bigger than it is now) in the manner it has been lately perhaps we may not be in the position we are in now. Maybe we as sea anglers should be campaigning for the enforcement of cfp rather than saying it is a waste of time so lets get out.

 

Over to you as OMOTS used to say before his mysterious departure.

Edited November 27, 2005 by Feels like Winter to me

[JB]

Hi @FLWTM@,

First of all, the whole idea was compromise, which is the way politicians do things. If they want to increase some tax or other, they tell us they are going to increase it by 20%. A hue and cry ensues as everyone objects. After much negotiation, we settle on a 6% increase. The people think they have won a victory; but as the politicians only wanted to increase it by 3% anyway, they have a double victory. And everyone is happy. Or am I showing my cynicism?

 

We need to play the politicians at their own game. To be practical, I doubt that we would ever come out of the CFP. However, if we did, we should run our fisheries in the same way that the countries that care about their fisheries run theirs.

 

I think the CFP was destined to fail, right from the offset. There were too many countries involved in it, for starters. Inevitably it would be one endless argument as to who was entitled to the most quota, as opposed to what was best for our fish stocks. It wasn’t only the English who broke rules. Also, although I have no figures to prove it, there is considerably more fishing effort put in by the other EU countries in waters that should belong to us, rather than vice versa. If it comes to an alternative plan to the CFP, I am sure that one could be put together, with full consultation with all the “stakeholders”.

 

Like many fishermen, I am an EU sceptic. I believe that it has been paramount in the decline of the UK fishing industry. However, I fully recognise that there has been a trade-off and only hope our politicians have done the right thing in the long run. With my charter business, I take many people from all over the UK (and further afield). These anglers are from all walks of life; from millionaires to paupers. Thus far, I have not come across a single person who says they feel they have benefited from being in the EU.

 

It’s Michele’s birthday today, so we’re heading out for the rest of the day. (Everyone should be entitled to half a day off work when their birthday falls on a Sunday, don’t you think?) I look forward to reading any further comments tomorrow.

 

JB

[Guest Feels like Winter to me]

I arent convinced John.

 

Yes I'm pretty sure that all the people you meet in your life are anti Europe, they are the victims of this anti eu campaign I talk about. It's the same for me I haven't met many if any who think the eu is a good thing, but when you get the anti eu thing thrown at you from every direction it is not suprising.

 

I dont think it is enough to say we will think of an alternative when it comes, you should really think of the alternative upfront otherwise you are requesting one hell of a lot of people back something despite not knowing what it is they are backing ( a bit like backing the conservative party). Surely that isnt the way to do business? As I say I'm neither for nor against but I must know what it is im being asked to back before I make up my mind. The present situation seems to be the cfp or the proposals of the cod crusaders who coincidentally I would have thought have no intention of accepting our views as "stakeholders" unless of course our views tie in 100% with thier requirements. Nice use of the buzz word though - Full marks .

 

Please wish your good lady a happy birthday. Isnt it about time she had her own identity here. Ive found here to be quite diplomatic in the past.

Edited November 27, 2005 by Feels like Winter to me

[big_cod]

Hi john,

What would your alternertive be to cfp we know its far from perfect and the quota system if it had been worked correctly through the years might have put us in a better light in the present climate.

I dont think there is an easy solution, what the industrial fishing has done is an outrage but that practice now seems to be coming to an end i know you have seen it at first hand yourself but it is only a few months ago that some local trawlers were strugling to catch anywhere near the quota they have now so if they were given more i dont really know if it will make a massive difference.

If we pull out of cfp is it going to be a free for all because believe me that is probably what the majority will want and personally i dont think it can take that ,i walk on the fish quay regulary and believe me john it aint a pretty sight these days ,from the days when you were lineing its unbelievable just what gets landed now adays, if it wasnt for whitings the place would shut down lets just hope this hard winter what it looks like we are going to get will give the codling a good hatch rate at spawning, there is already roe showing in the cod what we caught earlyer this week i think they know something we dont its going to be a brass monkey one.

[Leon Roskilly]

Even Iceland has 20 species of fish that require International management, I'm told that we have 80 species.

 

If we did withdraw from the CFP, Europe would still be out there fishing and managing European fish stocks.

 

How they manage the European stocks and the marine environment, we would no longer have any say in.

 

But would that matter because we alone would be managing the marine environment and stocks up to the median line?

 

But a lot of the fish we catch this side of the line are often over the other side of the line.

 

And the food, spawning grounds etc are often over the other side of the line too, being managed by the EU countries for their benefit not ours, and we would not have any say in that management.

 

So, to avoid the situation where we were grabbing everything we can before it disappears over the line, and where the EU boats from many nations are waiting to grab it, or prevent them swimming back this way, we would need to enter into some kind of International Fisheries and Marine Management Agreement(s) with the EU nations, with Norway, with Iceland etc.

 

How would that work?

 

The UK going once a year to sit down with the EU nations to decide what rules everyone fishes to, what traditional access rights different nations have to different waters, how much of each trans-national stock each is able to help themselves to. The UK stitched up time and again as it tries to negotiate alone with a block of other nations who are prepared to bargain forward provision of gas reserves, essential for our industries, for fish etc

 

Or do we simply go it alone, defending our line with gunboats and watching the fish cross the line perhaps never to be seen again?

 

Before pulling out of the CFP, I'd like to know how these very important issues will be tackled, how likely proposals are to be workable, how long it will all take.

 

And what about what happens this side of the line?

 

What can we do to manage our stocks better, by ourselves, than we can do now as partners within the CFP?

 

Will we put up the MLS for all species? Increase mesh sizes? Close areas? Do whatever is needed to rebuild stocks when they are in our sector, then watch them swim over the line?

 

I'd like to know a little more about what replaces the CFP rather than sloganise about withdrawing from the CFP, and thinking that will solve everything.

 

What really interests me is hearing, not the advatages of withdrawal, but what will be the very real problems of withdrawal, and how our fisheries will be able to live with the downsides.

 

Tight Lines - leon

Edited November 27, 2005 by Leon Roskilly

[Guest binatone]

I don’t honestly think that (for our part of the North Sea) it would now make any difference if we where in or out of the cfp.

The damage has been done from both sides, (the government and the commercial fishermen) bad management of the cfp that resulted in bad participation.

It is very debateable weather the cfp was ever intended to work or knot.

But its history now, the only light at the end of the tunnel from a recreational point of view is that there is not the means left anymore to cause the same amount of damage that previous bad management (and participation) caused.

From a commercial point of view, I think that the ones that are left who have the correct attitude will hopefully get through the aftermath of what has happened to our industry.

There will hopefully be a recoverable fishery that will benefit both commercial and recreational fishermen.

I don’t think that we will get any help from politicians regardless what ever we wish for.

I have said before and will say again that I do believe that this country benefits a great deal from being a part of the European market place.

I just hope that in the years to come that we all can learn from some of the dramatic errors that where made from all, that where involved.

[dale]

for me i think we shouldn't trust commercial's and politicians as far as we can chuck them.

 

RSA is slowly building pressure to be heard no need to jump into bed with the people who have caused this problem in the first case.

 

they only want out of the cfp so they can exclusive rights to rape what's left before the whole thing goes t*ts up!

 

the politions are starting to listen as they can slowly see the £ signs of getting into bed with anglers. they just can't be seen to be jumping ship just yet. once the commercial sector has shrunk some more from self abuse they will dump them.

 

politions only have 1 agenda........... VOTES and where they can gain most. Votes keep them in power and in paid luxury.

 

we will eventually get a voice but lets hope its not so late that there's nothing left to shout about.

 

stick with backing the action groups on our side.

[Guest binatone]

Well I think dale I can see where your coming from, but it just knot quite as simple as that.

You’re quite correct on your assumptions on political bed hopping. But I don’t think that even the bed that you are offering them looks comfortable from there point of view.

It’s all to do with public opinion. Now who is going to be brave enough to say that they where the politician who coursed the end of the fishing industry in this country?

You see dale as much as you may dislike commercial fishermen, the general public would and do put up with the good old fashion trawler men of this island of ours.

They certainly prefer them to what they see as a bunch of bloodthirsty sea anglers sticking sharp hooks into fish for fun. Remember fox hunting?

We are a very patriotic lot and when it comes to conflicts we tend to remember and have well fast loyalties. If you can remember the cod war you will remember the great support that this country had for it fishermen from the public, well its still there.

That’s why people spend millions of pounds every day on local fish and chips.

At least that’s my opinion.

[Steve Coppolo]

It’s all to do with public opinion.

 

If there's one thing that this government DON'T care about, it's public opinion.