BASS AND COD IN BEFORE OVER FISHING

[Guest NickInTheNorth]

eh?

 

I've not alleged anything of the kind Nick!

 

 

TL - leon

 

Late in the day, the idea sprang into Davy's head that bass fishermen would need to make up a shortfall in their catches.

 

Now what he should have done was some basic research and quantified his concerns in some way.

 

- How long will there be a shortfall

 

- How much

 

- How much of that shortfall will be able to be made up

 

- Will it be made up of cockles, cod, sole

 

- How will it apply regionally etc

 

And then if he still had significant concerns he could have made some enquiries to see if those concerns were already being taken into account etc.

 

But no, the question is kept much as 'Have you stopped beating your wife yet'

 

And he jumps straight onto a public forum.

 

And for the few supporters of the BMP that post on here, the timing couldn't have been worse.

 

Just as the last big push to get the mildly apathetic and waveres to get around to putting in a response is being put underway, and those involved are up to their eyeballs in a thousand and one other things to put the finishing touches in.

 

It's probably just unfortunate timing, but it reeks of sabotage, and brings a huge sense of dismay to those who have put in years of effort and months of very hard work to bring us to this point.

 

Leon,

 

If that wasn't the intention of what I have quoted above then my apologies. That was how it came across to me. I was surprised as your posts don't usually paint individuals in such a negative light.

 

I know how much work is going into this campaign, I am just astounded that individuals are allowing their emotions to get in the way of those efforts,and are being personally critical of individuals rather than addressing the legitimate concerns of potential supporters.

[Leon Roskilly]

I know how much work is going into this campaign, I am just astounded that individuals are allowing their emotions to get in the way of those efforts,and are being personally critical of individuals rather than addressing the legitimate concerns of potential supporters.

 

 

Davy had a valid concern.

 

He didn't take it to BASS.

 

He put it onto a forum where he knows that there are a number of people who have been putting their heart and sole into this for quite some time.

 

If he had put it under a heading: BMP Query

 

And posted: Hey guys, I've had a thought can someone please explain.........

 

 

Then I'm sure that he would have kicked off a valuable and civilised debate.

 

 

But he posted under the title:

 

'the not so rosy side of the bmp '

 

 

Just see it from the point of view of someone who has been putting in plenty of behind the scenes effort, tired, in need of support ................

 

Before anyone who cares even opens the thread, seeing the title, I can feel their gut twisting and andrenalin rising.

 

 

Then Davy's first post is confrontational:

 

 

£3 million possibly up to 6 million... that's a very high price for other species to pay, just to make sure there are larger bass for a select group of "anglers" to catch.

 

Sorry but for me that is unacceptable

 

 

Davy, you may not have meant to wind people up, perhaps it's just unfortunate that this medium is so impersonal, but that title and the way your concern was expressed IMO has set the tone for this whole debate.

 

On refelection, I'm sure that he would agree that there would have been a much better way of kicking off an informative, sensible and intelligent debate where reasonable questions, phased in a reasonable way, can be reasonably answered as far as is possible (without huge resources and an infallible crystal ball!).

 

Suffice to say, I've had enough.

 

I don't get paid enough for this (joke!), and I've plenty of important stuff to be getting on with that I hope is going to make a difference to our future sport, whether that be tope, mullet, bass or chub.

 

I now know why most of the peple doing the work, making the decisions, getting on with it rather than just spouting off about it, will have nothing at all to do with Internet forums.

 

I'll ignore these Anglersnet BMP discussions (at least until I know that my new blood pressure pills are working!), you know my email address if needed.

 

If people have concerns about the BMP, I suggest that they take them directly to BASS.

 

 

Tight Lines - leon

Edited January 10, 2006 by Leon Roskilly

[Guest @Winter@]

Sorry to read that Leon. Says something when the most sensible poster to this forum feels that way. Keep up the good work Leon. Despite how things have gone in the past day or 2 Im pretty certain everyone appreciates it.

[Sharkbyte]

And now it would appear to me that a vocal minority that post on here believe that bass are a more important species than others that swim in the sea.

 

 

What is it about a passionate Bass Angler that offends some other posters?

 

This distinct predjudice is continually rearing up its head here and on every other sea fishing forum I can think of and is being displayed by the same characters.

 

You are trying to stereotype those that choose to fish for Bass as anglers that care nothing for anything else, as a Thames Estuary angler my passions lie with not only Bass but the awesome Smoothound and Tope and our bread and butter Roker. In the past two years of using my own boats I've had Smoothound up to 19lb, a few small tope which I intend to improve upon, a fair few Thornback up to double figures and Bass to 11.5lbs. Each of these species were targetted, caught, amired, photographed and returned. I consider myself and all rounder, enjoying all these species in addition to Pike and specimen Perch.

 

As some of these species are the subject of a smear on the BMP, how many of them have you targetted in the past couple of years and where does your passion lie?

 

Do you honestly believe I would hang my Smoothound and Tope sport out to dry in order to just improve my chances of a decent Bass? Not a chance.

 

I believe that you, Davy Holt and Sandtiger et al are seeking to smear this Campaign at the final hurdle because of these unfounded predjudices and am yet to see the kind of passion in your fishing related posts that cause one to become enraged at crafty and scandalous attacks, on a measure that will improve protection for ALL species dear to the Sea Anglers heart in the longer term, simply because it all begins with the humble Bass.

 

Ask yourself why the BMP has beaten a potential Cod Management Plan or Smoothound Management Plan to consultation level. It is simply because that passion was strong enough to set the ball rolling nearly 30 years

ago, at a time when for instance, some Cod anglers were taking their catches home in a wheelbarrow. It is for that reason that at this time I believe the BMP, as opposed to a CMP or a SMP stands the best chance of success, in beginning to secure a future where immature fish are not commercially targetted. If and when a CMP or a SMP come to fruition, they can count on my support not any different to that which I give the BMP.

 

I am saddened to see a rift developing between you guys and some on the SOS campaign, with which I believe some of you have some involvement. Would it not have been better thrashing this one out amongst the membership on your forum first?

 

Moderators.

I sincerely hope that this post is not deleted, unlike some of the others I have put together.

Edited January 10, 2006 by Sharkbyte

[SandTiger]

I believe that you, Davy Holt and Sandtiger et al are seeking to smear this Campaign at the final hurdle because of these unfounded predjudices...

 

In relation to me (as it is not for me to answer for anyone else) I'm not really sure where you are coming from with regards to your assertion that I am somehow out to smear the BMP campaign. I have tried to explain my position to you and others - Maybe you can kindly show me where it is that you feel that I have set out to smear the BMP in these posts?

[wurzel]

Hello fishingsfine

 

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He cares about his own earnings

 

Is there any one on here that does not ?

 

Quote

 

I wouldn't take much advise from that man. Try and ask him which and how many fish he predicts to land from now till next January. Ask him the result next year and you'll see the difference between his forecast and actual landings makes the level of uncertainty of the BMP's affect on other fish stocks a laugh.

 

Could you please explain what you mean, for as I sure as hell can't.

[Ian Burrett]

I am afraid that it would appear that we have unfortunately gone down the pitiful road first traveled in game fishing years ago in which one species of fish (salmon) was seen as more important that others.

 

 

Hi Nick

 

No one has made Bass the most importanr species.

 

It just happens that many years ago a group od Bass enthusiasts got together and decided to try and do something about the diminishing Bass stocks.

 

They first had to fight all the battles we are going through in Scotland i.e. getting RSA on the political agenda

 

Because of the way conservation works in RSA all conservation groups are involved to some degree with the BMP because we believe the BMP will open up the floodgates for all other recreational species.

 

To fail with the BMP would be a disaster for RSA, which could take years to recover from.

 

So let Bass be the more important species until February 8th, then hopefully Tope and Mullett will be flavour of the month

[wurzel]

Hello Fishingsfine.

 

I am not prepared to give you a copy of my accounts, you will just have to trust me when I say I am not a million hier, or even close, the figue I quoted ( £12000 ) is a quick gestamation based on the last few years. Thats probably to much information, but I am trying to give anglers true facts on how the BMP will effect the inshore bass fishermen.

Dispite what you all think fish stocks in our area are quite good our dovers sole catches have been pretty stable for about 10 years,so has the bass catches, last year was down but not that much. so our grossings have also been stable. The only thing that is starting to make a difference is the effects of management, after the December fisheries meeting in Brussels it now looks like we are in for a cut in the sole quota again, last years was not enough so I hate to think what next summers will be, so if the BMP is implimented

our bass catches will also be down giveing us a double whamy, believe me we are looking at two very tough years ahead, we will need to make up that shortfall, the smaller close inshore boats will suffer more than I, and thier damage might be long term as there is no guarintee the BMP will produce enough bigger bass for them to work with . In fact it does not guarinttee any thing at all.

 

Quote

ps. A later posting claims that 'the concerns expressed by certain factions can rest assured that there will be no need for commercial bass fisherman to target other species while the bass grow to 45cm.' So what is your REAl problem wurzel?

 

The problem is that is a load of twadle.

[wurzel]

If you are not prepared to give me a copy of your account so please don't ask retoric questions demanding that otherwise that kind of questions can only be deemed spin and winding up.

 

I did not ask a question, you did, I stated a fact .

 

'Twadlee dee twadlee do' - could be a new hit song

Sorry, but for my part you guys sing the same song as you have done for decades, and where did that bring us? Nothing will change to the better if we have to follow your advises. You guys need management, firm management. And that is taken care of in the bmp.

 

seems you know more about what we do than me.

Anglers will need tougher managment than the commercials.

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The rest is a money thing if you can prove a real loss, which I doubt.

 

Well there is the £1000 for extra nets for a start, and you are right there won't be a loss I will have to make up the loss eles where.

[stavey]

Well there is the £1000 for extra nets for a start, and you are right there won't be a loss I will have to make up the loss eles where.

 

I would suggest scotland wurzel as there seems no chance of any bmp proposals being implemented up their! (judging from a lot of the scottish anglers posts on here lately ) only joking wurzel