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Canoe access poll on BBC


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Prior to this debate I had an 'open mind' about the subject. I have had, as most anglers have, some run-ins with boaters, that have cost me a good days sport, some big individual fish and (in my match fishing days), quite a bit of money. On most these occasions, the exchanges have usually been a polite shout from my self, followed by an apology from the boater, and evasive action. Some however have escalated into verbal abuse, and on one occasion a physical altercation (I won). Apart from one particular yacht club on the R Ure, my worst experiences have been with groups of paddlers that have descended on a stretch without permission and proceeded to have 'races', splash fights, jousts and a general 'fun' time. When challenged the reply was akin to that of groups of youths that use car parks for drag starts, wheelies and 'doughnuts', in that they were just having fun and I didn't own the place. I'm usually on my own, and being out numbered by about 5-1, I have reluctantly had to move. On the odd occasion when there have been other anglers about the situation was usually reversed.(but the damage had been done)

Those were just my experiences, and I took them as part and parcel of angling in today's society. But, having read this thread, my mind has been 'closed' to the idea of free access because of the possibility of having an increase in paddlers like the above.

At the times of the incidents there was no way I could report them, no way I could have proved their actions, or even reliability identified the craft, to substantiate any legal proceedings.

Policing the rivers is a nigh on impossible task, and the money and manpower needed would far out weigh any revenue raised.

Angling is more than just catching fish, if it wasn't it would just be called 'catching'......... John

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From an official Environment Agency Report

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/subje.../subjects/fish/

What I think is sad, and hasn't been really thought through, is that if the BCU gets it's way and all rivers become free access to all water users, is that there will inevitably be a 'CB Radio' effect (once CB became legalised in the UK, the airwaves were flooded by kids and idiots and the real enthusiasts faded away, their culture destroyed).

 

Rather than the relatively few number of enthusiasts using the rivers as now, once anyone can buy/make a cheap craft and launch it anywhere, there is bound to be a huge increase in the number of people doing that.

 

Genuine sports canoists will be driven off their once popular places by hordes of untrained and dangerous louts who simply have no regards for either rules, conventions or consideration for others.

 

In the minds of the proposers I suspect that they envisage the number of people wanting to go where they will as much as there are now, and they haven't really considered the scale of demand that will be released by free access to all.

 

Or perhaps simply hope that the amount of water opened will easily accomodate the explosive growth that can be expected.

 

What they have probably not realised is that they will be dealing with a very different type of user than the ones that they are currently familiar with if the proposals go ahead, and are unprepared for what that will mean for their sport and the minorityisation (!) of the kind of people now engaged in their sport.

 

I suspect that pretty soon the BCU will be fighting genuinely free access tooth and nail, ironically demanding that only BCU members be given access, at least to certain river systems etc, whilst anglers have to put up with the rest of the great unwashed paddling community wherever they are now free to paddle.

 

Once that stable door of 'free access to all' has been opened, it will be impossible to close, and those who forced it open are likely to be horrified at what follows them though :(

 

 

Excellent posting, Leon. Anglers (and that means ALL of you) please note well what Leon had to say, and remember it. We Anglers tend to be very ostrich-like - heads firmly stuck in the sand of our various fishy obsessions until a ruddy great lion marches up and bites our bums off. And how we howl, then! Don't let it happen with this one.

Edited by Paul Boote

"What did you expect to see out of a Torquay hotel bedroom window? Sydney Opera House perhaps? The Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Herds of wildebeest sweeping majestically...?"

 

Basil Fawlty to the old bat, guest from hell, Mrs Richards.

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Newt, I'll have to disagree on that. I will concede that there are a few rivers in Britain that it should be possible to do that, BUT, with the amount of rubbish floating in the rivers today, you would have to keep a sharp eye out as it is canoes and kayaks we are talking about!

5460c629-1c4a-480e-b4a4-8faa59fff7d.jpg

 

fishing is nature's medical prescription

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I could be dead wrong about UK rivers. These are the sorts of things I was thinking of. As to debris - since you would both be moving at current speed, objects in the water usually are not a major hazard.

upstream.jpg

Scan82s.jpg

niangua4.jpg

crinfo3.jpg

 

But hopefully not like this.

 

new-urr.jpg

" My choices in life were either to be a piano player in a whore house or a politician. And to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference!" - Harry Truman, 33rd US President

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I like what they've got written on the bottom of the last boat :clap3:

John S

Quanti Canicula Ille In Fenestra

 

Species caught in 2017 Common Ash, Hawthorn, Hazel, Scots Pine, White Willow.

Species caught in 2016: Alder, Blackthorn, Common Ash, Crab Apple, Left Earlobe, Pedunculate Oak, Rock Whitebeam, Scots Pine, Smooth-leaved Elm, Swan, Wayfaring tree.

Species caught in 2015: Ash, Bird Cherry, Black-Headed Gull, Common Hazel, Common Whitebeam, Elder, Field Maple, Gorse, Puma, Sessile Oak, White Willow.

Species caught in 2014: Big Angry Man's Ear, Blackthorn, Common Ash, Common Whitebeam, Downy Birch, European Beech, European Holly, Hawthorn, Hazel, Scots Pine, Wych Elm.
Species caught in 2013: Beech, Elder, Hawthorn, Oak, Right Earlobe, Scots Pine.

Species caught in 2012: Ash, Aspen, Beech, Big Nasty Stinging Nettle, Birch, Copper Beech, Grey Willow, Holly, Hazel, Oak, Wasp Nest (that was a really bad day), White Poplar.
Species caught in 2011: Blackthorn, Crab Apple, Elder, Fir, Hawthorn, Horse Chestnut, Oak, Passing Dog, Rowan, Sycamore, Willow.
Species caught in 2010: Ash, Beech, Birch, Elder, Elm, Gorse, Mullberry, Oak, Poplar, Rowan, Sloe, Willow, Yew.

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Sorry for not replying earlier, my weekends are for canoeing (currently celebrating the rain :) ) which doesn't go hand-in-hand with the interweb.

 

As I have said in earlier posts, I don't really think fair access to our natural heritage should be a numbers game. If that was the case, the simple fact that a small minority (anglers) retain defacto control over 99% of rivers would be enough to clinch the access debate.

 

Purely in the interests of annoying Phil "crash and burn" Hackett, I'll reply to the thorny issue with a quote from the EA themselves:

 

The number of people who said they had been freshwater fishing in the last year is greatly in excess of the million who bought a licence in 2004/5. Possible reasons for the discrepancy include:

(i) high evasion levels amongst anglers who fish infrequently; and

(ii) ‘going fishing’ might mean accompanying an angler rather than personally fishing.

Although I have never seen angling spectators on my many river voyages, I am willing to accept that they may occur down south. Even so, this can hardly account for the vast gap between the number of licence holders and the alleged number of anglers (and what counts as spectating? Cyclists who stop to watch you land a fish??)

 

I'm sure you will all agree that we shouldn't concern ourselves too much with 'anglers' (infrequent ones at that) who do not care enough to pay the Environment Agency a small licence fee (judging by these discussions, most of you hold such freeloaders in deepest contempt).

 

Anglers go fishing to:

A: Catch Fish

B: Enjoy their surroundings

C: To see nature.

 

Canoists cannot do B or C as they are too busy selecting their "path" through the water, if they stopped and enjoyed the scenery they could possibly hit a (submerged?) obstacle.

 

Rubbish, that's like saying a hill walker can't enjoy their surroundings or see nature because they might trip over... I would say B & C are probably the most important reasons why anyone goes canoeing!

 

Even when I am paddling difficult grade V whitewater (the scale of I to V) it's perfectly possible to enjoy the scenery - the deer in and around Glen Coe being a personal favourite.

 

I have seen (overseas) "purpose built" Kayaking trails with still, fast flowing, rapids etc. Everything, in fact, to make nearly all canoists, kayakers etc happy.

 

Although artificial courses have their place (particularly in the UK where access to real rivers is pretty much prohibited), they are as good for canoeists as a 'fake hill' in your local park would be for hill walkers. I appreciate the constructive suggestion but land owners didn't even try that against the Right to Roam.

 

What I think is sad, and hasn't been really thought through, is that if the BCU gets it's way and all rivers become free access to all water users, is that there will inevitably be a 'CB Radio' effect.

 

The BCU has already won its campaign in Scotland (where it is also the NGB) yet no such effect has been observed.

 

Although it's true that the population density is lower in Scotland, it seems strange to me that we have not seen any of your apocalyptic scenario developing around Glasgow, for example.

 

Neither has fair, responsible access led to such an effect in other countries (apart from Germany, apparently).

 

It's interesting that this argument has completely swung away from access by canoeists being bad, to "canoeists aren't so bad, it's the hoardes of day trippers in hire boats we're worried about".

 

D.

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I'm sorta surprised that you can spare time to observe the shore scenery when dealing with that class of water. I think these are all class 5 sections.

 

chulyshman-andy.jpg

 

NZRAF4-13%20Grade%205%20roaring%20lion%20rapid%20Karamea%20River.jpg

 

prev6.jpg

 

Raft1.jpg

" My choices in life were either to be a piano player in a whore house or a politician. And to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference!" - Harry Truman, 33rd US President

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I'm sorta surprised that you can spare time to observe the shore scenery when dealing with that class of water. I think these are all class 5 sections.

 

chulyshman-andy.jpg

 

NZRAF4-13%20Grade%205%20roaring%20lion%20rapid%20Karamea%20River.jpg

 

prev6.jpg

 

Raft1.jpg

have to say they all liiok pretty scenic to me. I'd love to be there , on a canoe or fishing. A bit like arguing you can't enjoy the scenery when playing a 12 lb salmon.....I'd rather catch one in wild surrounds.

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