2+2 does equal 4.

[Bob Bradford]

Brian I must have been on the keyboard at the same time you were!

 

"It does no good to blame pike anglers in general for the mindless actions of two as this particular piker(me)has never transported a livebait in his life and if I wanted to fish a livebait then the only way I would do so would be if I could catch one from the venue I was fishing that day, so it goes without saying that I utterly condemn the actions of Nige and his companion just as I think all right minded anglers everywhere would"

 

I quite agree, but my question is ; Are Pike anglers the worst offenders?

 

Maybe now some of you will start to see the logic in Keith Arthur's recent comments calling for a total ban on anglers taking fish from waters, the current legislation is very hard to prosecute and is largely based on trust, well it seems we (and I mean we) cannot be trusted.

 

This most recent scandal could ironically see the end of live baiting altogether and it will not have been the match boys , anti's or any other group that brought this on but Pike anglers themselves!!!!

 

True Pike and Predator anglers that do adhere to the law have my sympathy...... the selfish few have struck again.

[Peter Waller]

200 small carp, 10 a day for twenty days, probably is not an excessive amount. Hardly the point though. Are we sure that it is Nige Williams? Dare I say, no, won't remind folk of that one! Perhaps he was exporting 'em, did he have the correct paperwork for Ireland though? Lucky Ireland, no carp!! What Nige will do in his near manic quest for piking immortallity, perhaps he's got it now, the all time bad boy of piking. In other sports he would be accused of cheating and his record disqualified. But that doesn't happen in angling, his record is a fact of history.

 

I am not happy with this slur on piking, but breaking the rules has always been a part of the circus. One or two of us are aware of the lengths that some 'names' go to with regard to livebaiting. Not good.

 

There are those who seem to enjoy notoriety for the wrong reasons. Shame on them.

[Peter Waller]

In reply to Bob's question, are pikers the worst of the bunch? No, I don't think that they are. Fish smuggling and theft have always sullied carp angling. Carp are something of a joke due to the movement of stolen French fish to the UK. The same can be said of catfish so illegal fish movements is not restricted to pike anglers. So, does that make carp anglers the worst of the bunch? No, even match anglers need to have their puddles stuffed with fish, and some might have come out of a river, or even a boatshed. We are all to blame. We want to catch fish, we want to catch big fish, to answer that desire some folk will supply the need, either for false glory, or cash. More than one 4 X 4 coming from France, or going to Ireland, has a tank built under the floor besides the fuel tank. And that's a fact, and many of us know it. Time to stop looking the other way, perhaps? Yes, we ALL need to get our act together.

Edited May 21, 2006 by Peter Waller

[bungral]

In reply to Bob's question, are pikers the worst of the bunch? No, I don't think that they are. Fish smuggling and theft have always sullied carp angling. Carp are something of a joke due to the movement of stolen French fish to the UK. The same can be said of catfish so illegal fish movements is not restricted to pike anglers. So, does that make carp anglers the worst of the bunch? No, even match anglers need to have their puddles stuffed with fish, and some might have come out of a river, or even a boatshed. We are all to blame. We want to catch fish, we want to catch big fish, to answer that desire some folk will supply the need, either for false glory, or cash. More than one 4 X 4 coming from France, or going to Ireland, has a tank built under the floor besides the fuel tank. And that's a fact, and many of us know it. Time to stop looking the other way, perhaps? Yes, we ALL need to get our act together.

 

I'd agree with that! It must be happening quite often from all reaches of the sport.

 

Its just seems the pike anglers are worse at it than the rest so get caught more.

[Sportsman]

Allegedly top Pike angler Nigel Williams and a mate are responsible it is time for Pike anglers to stop all the denials and get their house in order , there is a small element ,including some of the very top Pike boys clearly doing as they please and breaking the laws of this land, now will some of you accept fish ARE being stolen and transported by Pike anglers? or am I still making it up? Please do not say this should not be aired on a public forum in case the Anti's see it and do not accuse me of trying to drive wedges between different groups of anglers , this issue has come about through no fault of mine and hiding behind lame reasons is not the way to address this escalating problem, it's time to face facts .....anglers are the worst culprits when it comes to fish thefts and illegally transferring them to other waters....but what is the solution?

 

Sorry Bob, all this shows is that this particular pair of angler were transporting fish, apparently illegaly. If that is the case I am sure that they will be punished appropriately and will fullly deserve it.

It proves absolutely nothing about fish thefts or pike anglers in general.

I am not disputing that occasionally some fish are taken from some waters and put in others. I don't know any details so can't really make any useful comment.

With regards to massive fish thefts for the deadbait trade I would be surprised. To sell deads commercially I would think you would need consistent size and quality so the wastage of unuseable fish would be high and I can't see it being cost effective, there is just not the intrinsic value, but as I say, I have no specific knowledge one way or the other.

For the record, living in the highlands of Scotland my access to coarse fishing is limited so I fish mainly for Pike using lures or sea deads, occasionally dead trout, although I have more faith in Sardines

[Bob Bradford]

Sorry Bob, all this shows is that this particular pair of angler were transporting fish, apparently illegally. If that is the case I am sure that they will be punished appropriately and will fully deserve it.

It proves absolutely nothing about fish thefts or pike anglers in general.

I am not disputing that occasionally some fish are taken from some waters and put in others. I don't know any details so can't really make any useful comment.

With regards to massive fish thefts for the deadbait trade I would be surprised. To sell deads commercially I would think you would need consistent size and quality so the wastage of unusable fish would be high and I can't see it being cost effective, there is just not the intrinsic value, but as I say, I have no specific knowledge one way or the other.

For the record, living in the highlands of Scotland my access to coarse fishing is limited so I fish mainly for Pike using lures or sea deads, occasionally dead trout, although I have more faith in Sardines

 

If the fish are nicked what have they cost ? so what if they have to be sorted into specific sizes? the "wrong" sized fish will simply be discarded !!!!

 

The people that are nicking large amounts of fish don't do a 9 to 5 job, much more likely they are claiming benefits and nicking fish is just a "nice little earner" to pee up the wall of the local pub.

 

I think Peter Waller's post sums the situation up pretty well.....all branches of angling have an element within them, yes even my precious match anglers!!! what can be done though? in my opinion not a lot!

[Brian Carragher]

I seem to remember a thread here about transferring fish as live bait, someone saying it is possible to obtain the section 30 approval for live baiting - is that true or just more gufff?

 

 

You can get a section 30 to legally carry livebaits to use at a specific venue which must be the stated venue on the form, so the answer is yes providing you adhere to the described venue on the form.

 

Some fish farms are section 30 approved and therefore the stock has been health certified and the consent is much easier to get but once got then you can't change your intended venue as the section 30 would then be invalid

[Papa Lazarou]

I have to say that there actions are both selfish and despicable, its the catch at all costs mentality and frankly it stinks. If this doesn,t go a long way to getting livebaiting banned then i will be very very surprised?. They have both shamed themselves and i hope that the fishing press and the powers that be do there job and we don,t hear from them again.

[Brian Carragher]

Nige and his mate have done pikers everywhere a massive dis service and deserve anything and everything that the various legal and environmental agencies will throw at them.

 

Apart from the previously mentioned comment about carp being a species that the Irish authorities don't want in their waters, it is also illegal to livebait in Ireland.

 

It's well believed that some anglers of all disciplines will bend the rules in order to catch that "big one" so I think in this case Nige and co. will be made an example of

 

I'm fairly certain the CLF (carp liberation front)were'nt involved in this one though

[mark barrett]

And, once you leave the fishery, what measures are in place to check where you use the live baits - do you get a receipt from the fishery you go to perhaps???

 

Sounds a little like some legal obscurities where tradesmen legally sell various items which are then ilegal to carry or use....

 

bob,

 

i find the whole context of your thread both insulting and verging on the point of libelous.

 

on no point can what these idiots have done be defended and i am confident that appropriate action will be taken against those involved.

however nowhere in that story is there any evidence of these fish being stolen or illegally gained from any source, you have made that leap on your own and by doing so have smeared all predator anglers in the process.

others on here may not see your hidden agenda in attempting y all means possible to get livebaiting and coarse deads banned, but i am not so blind to your odious little campaign.

 

deal in facts Bob, facts that you can unequivocally prove. if you are so confident of your facts then name names and sources, go to the press.

you cannot and have not because you have none. you are taking your own views and opinions as fact and spewing your vitriol on here.

personally i find it a reflection on the moderation of this site that a post that lays blame at an entire section of the angling community based on the actions of two as weak at best. if this post had said that al, blacks, all asians , all women etc would it still have been allowed to stand?

 

it also quite noticeable Bob that you attempt this on forums only where you expect to get some positive feedback, possibly due to the large number of novices or beginners that are present on these forums and are either not au fait or not interested in angling politics or events Bob.

 

as i ahve already said when you have facts and proof that wil stand up in a court of law then we will all hail you as the crusadre/ messiah that you are proclaiming yourself to be, but untill then be very careful as to the accusations that you make Bob, especially when as scurrelous as this thread.