2+2 does equal 4.

[Bob Bradford]

bob,

 

i find the whole context of your thread both insulting and verging on the point of libelous.

 

on no point can what these idiots have done be defended and i am confident that appropriate action will be taken against those involved.

however nowhere in that story is there any evidence of these fish being stolen or illegally gained from any source, you have made that leap on your own and by doing so have smeared all predator anglers in the process.

others on here may not see your hidden agenda in attempting y all means possible to get livebaiting and coarse deads banned, but i am not so blind to your odious little campaign.

 

deal in facts Bob, facts that you can unequivocally prove. if you are so confident of your facts then name names and sources, go to the press.

you cannot and have not because you have none. you are taking your own views and opinions as fact and spewing your vitriol on here.

personally i find it a reflection on the moderation of this site that a post that lays blame at an entire section of the angling community based on the actions of two as weak at best. if this post had said that al, blacks, all asians , all women etc would it still have been allowed to stand?

 

it also quite noticeable Bob that you attempt this on forums only where you expect to get some positive feedback, possibly due to the large number of novices or beginners that are present on these forums and are either not au fait or not interested in angling politics or events Bob.

 

as i ahve already said when you have facts and proof that wil stand up in a court of law then we will all hail you as the crusadre/ messiah that you are proclaiming yourself to be, but untill then be very careful as to the accusations that you make Bob, especially when as scurrelous as this thread.

 

A question is not an accusation Mr Barrett, and only by asking questions is there debate, and this is a public forum for debate.

 

It is true I am against ANYONE ,without the proper permission of the authority's ,removing fish from our natural venues....these fish belong to everyone , not just a selfish few that wish to kill and eat them,move them to stock a local pond or river or simply sell them for live or for dead baits.

 

The environmental implications for such idiotic and selfish actions are huge, it effects the whole ecology of the water, it has not and never will be "just a few fish" the laws need to be changed to simplify this issue, this in turn will help make it easier for the authority's to prosecute and uphold, these are the actions of a few selfish anglers , Immigrants and bait dealers effecting the vast majority of us law abiding anglers....but is that not always the way of it?

 

Angling needs to get it's house in order and because of the very complicated nature of our sport the only way we (the law abiding anglers) can combat this effectively is to consent to a blanket ban on removing fish for ANY reason, yes we will lose our right to take "one home for the pot" etc but at the end of the day law abiding anglers have to look at the big picture and put aside the smaller issues, it depends what you want, as I see it, Either ALL the fish are better protected on our natural venues or we have Carte Blanch and anything goes, at least for now the choice lays in the hands of all the honest ,law abiding anglers but how long before it is too late to bother with?

[Peter Waller]

Mark, your points are well made and do have substance. But then Bob's resonse is also well made.

 

I once made a similar comment about getting our house in order to Nev Fickling. His response was that as our house is not out of order therefore we can't put it in order. At that time, a few years ago, I believe he was right. Don't admit anything and look the other way.

 

But its a changing world, and this latest escapade really brings it to a head. We can't keep looking the other way, and basically we, pike angling, have brought this one on ourselves.

 

There are attitudes in angling that need looking at. And match angling is not above critiscism so I hope Bob is ready! Bob, you have opened the gate, perhaps it was best left firmly shut. Too late now.

[Sportsman]

Mark, your points are well made and do have substance. But then Bob's resonse is also well made.

 

I once made a similar comment about getting our house in order to Nev Fickling. His response was that as our house is not out of order therefore we can't put it in order. At that time, a few years ago, I believe he was right. Don't admit anything and look the other way.

 

But its a changing world, and this latest escapade really brings it to a head. We can't keep looking the other way, and basically we, pike angling, have brought this one on ourselves.

 

There are attitudes in angling that need looking at. And match angling is not above critiscism so I hope Bob is ready! Bob, you have opened the gate, perhaps it was best left firmly shut. Too late now.

 

Sorry, am I missing something. Surely this is about two people, not pike anglers in general. Why do pike anglers have to get there house in order because two individuals decided to break the law?

I noticed the other day that a Prison officer was found guilty of sex offences, does that mean that all prison officers are sex offenders and that Prison officers had better get their house in order?

This whole episode "proves" nothing about Pike angling.

Firstly, I don't believe that this is a widespread problem. I think it is a very small proportion of Pike Anglers who are so commited that they would go to these lengths.

Secondly there is absolutely no evidence that the fish in question were taken illegally from any water, so calling for a blanket ban on taking any fish is a nonsense based on this episode.

 

Quote Bob Bradford

now will some of you accept fish ARE being stolen and transported by Pike anglers? or am I still making it up?

 

Based on this event you have no evidence that this is true and no right to make this claim.

 

The two anglers in question will, I am sure, be punished appropriately, and fully deserve to be, it may stop others following their example, that is a good thing, but to say or imply that pike anglers up and down the country are stealing fish or illegally transporting live fish based on what appears to be the evidence of this case is I am afraid just wrong.

[gozzer]

No matter what legislation is brought in, it will not stop the removal and transferal of fish. We all know that this as gone on for as long as anyones as been interested in fish and fishing. For what ever reason, ignorant and selfish anglers will continue to do it. There is no way that all fisheries can be policed all of the time. I know for a fact of four cases in my area alone. Knowing and proving it is a different thing, so any chance of a prosecution is nil.

The anglers in this latest publisised case are not known to me, but have obviously been caught doing what hundreds of other anglers have done undetected, hundred of times. If found guilty then they should be punished to the full extent of the law, no argument.

 

I am now a so called 'pleasure' angler ( I hate the description, it infers that there is no pleasure in other form of angling, in some cases it may be true though). I don't intentionally fish for pike, but if one comes along as a result of my building a swim, then out comes the tackle and I will fish for them. I know of waters where the pike have been put in by anglers that think it needs them. And some, where the reverse is true, because some idiots think that pike ruin their fishing.

 

I don't fish for carp, in fact I try to avoid them, this is becoming increasingly hard because of the stocking, both legal and illegal in so many waters.

 

There is a lake not too far from me, where catfish have put in an appearance, I know this was not done by the association that have controlled the fishery for many years. Same with barbel in a few lakes around here.

 

This 'stocking' was done by selfish and stupid anglers who think it will improve the water, without any thought as to the overall effect on the long term future of the water.

 

Legislation might deter the mass removal and transfer of fish, but will do nothing to prevent the, dozen or so at a time, over a period of weeks/months, that happens so often, where the results aren't so dramatic in the short term.

[ColinW]

To be a successful mountaineer you don't need to be a great rock climber. You need to be an expert in logistics, able to get all the necessary equipment to a particular place at the right time. Pike angling is very similar. Anyone who has done any serious amount knows that if you stick a decent livebait in front of a pike's head at its feeding time, it will almost certainly take it. There's no great technical difficulty, despite the thousands of words written by the "experts" for eager consumption by the aspiring pike anglers. The "top" pike anglers are experts in logistics. They are the ones who get the best baits in front of the biggest fish at the right time. Anyone who thinks that some of the big names "waste" hours catching bait, or turn up with nothing more than a brand named freezer pack, is living in cloud cuckoo land. The sad thing is that, if the nutters achieve a general ban on livebaiting, it will only affect us no-marks who actually CATCH our own bait. The superstars will carry on regardless, as it is their livelihood. Those that break the law now are not going to worry about breaking new laws are they?

Hopefully the idiots caught trying to export carp will be fined VERY heavily and (if they are "big name" anglers) disgraced to a level which will discourage any repeat behaviour. Unfortunately, after a slap on the wrist fine, it will probably be swept under the carpet by a media whose main concern is advertising revenue.

[Peter Waller]

Sportsman, you and I, I'm sure, both know that for every one person caught breaking the rules there are others who don't. Fact of life.

[Sportsman]

Sportsman, you and I, I'm sure, both know that for every one person caught breaking the rules there are others who don't. Fact of life.

 

Of course, but the fact that someone is caught doing something does not automatically mean that everyone is, or that Pike anglers in general have to clean up their act. My act is perfectly clean, as I'm sure is yours and by far the great majority of Pike anglers in this country have acts which glint in the sunlight

This does not mean that we should ignore the relative few who think that they are above the law, or who need results at any cost, they should be stopped and prosecuted, but I don't agree that they give Pike anglers in general, a bad name, which was the implication in this thread.

 

Quote from the opening posting:

I know there is an element of very selfish and bad match anglers ,ditto Carp anglers etc but are Pikers the worst of the bunch? read this;

 

Allegedly top Pike angler Nigel Williams and a mate are responsible it is time for Pike anglers to stop all the denials and get their house in order ,

 

As I said, my house is, and always has been, in order, and I am sure that I could say the same for just about every other Pike angler in the country

Edited May 22, 2006 by Sportsman

[gozzer]

Why is everyone so touchy?

Bob clearly states that a small element within the pike angling fraternity do this. I have said that not only pike anglers, but match anglers, 'pleasure' anglers and idiots who just want their favorite species locally, all do it. It is a minority, but it happens. Anybody on here who denies that it does, are either fooling themselves or live a very sheltered angling life.

 

It doesn't always have to boil down to a us and them argument does it?

 

Or perhaps it does, and I'm just fooling myself.

[Sportsman]

Why is everyone so touchy?

Bob clearly states that a small element within the pike angling fraternity do this. I have said that not only pike anglers, but match anglers, 'pleasure' anglers and idiots who just want their favorite species locally, all do it. It is a minority, but it happens. Anybody on here who denies that it does, are either fooling themselves or live a very sheltered angling life.

 

It doesn't always have to boil down to a us and them argument does it?

 

Or perhaps it does, and I'm just fooling myself.

 

Bob clearly states:

 

it is time for Pike anglers to stop all the denials and get their house in order ,

 

I didn't start the us and them argument

[gozzer]

I'm not taking sides on this but, my slant on Bobs post was that, after being ridiculed, and told that it didn't happen,( not on this thread but on several similar ones), then at last something had happened that proved his case. He did single out pike anglers as having a section of idiots who do this, but IMO that was just a riposte at some of the earlier responses he'd had.