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Is it the end for charter skippers and fishing clubs? No time to bury your heads


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#1 glennk

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 12:05 AM

Sorry to bang on about this but it's a matter that concerns me greatly. From what I can gather DEFRA are currently looking at bag limits and licensing. This quote from the other topic on licences currently running has done nothing to ease my fears
"So, the government now has it's eyes firmly set on both charging anglers and introducing bag limits and other measures.

Although dressed up as a 'consultation document', IMO the debate that anglers should now be having is no longer "Should we or shouldn't we have a licence".

That time has passed and things have moved on.

A licence now seems to be firmly in DEFRA's sights (although we should still continue to point out to them that a licence will only be acceptable if anglers are being asked to pay for fishery management that is already delivering benefits to anglers)."


I think the time of my posting this illustrates just how concerned I am.
It sounds to me like this has moved beyond the discussion stage. What I would like to here is the thoughts of people like Big cod and those involved in the north east fishing clubs. My feeling is this could effect your business far more than some muppet wanting a few quid from you because he cant stay on his feet. Its time you took some time out and read through this and looked at whats coming. Time to stop petty arguments with binatone and focuss on a real issue for a while. The only way you can make any difference is to start addressing things now, avoiding the issue wont help you and there is no point crying foul in 3 or 5 years time when your aloud 2 fish a day and when your business is in ruins.
A recent read of the nesfc bumf suggests that charter business should now be diversifying into other species. The tope is now being spouted as your saviour. The councillour sat in my front room yesterday says the future looks rosie for charter angling in the area because of this and was proud to announce that they are looking at disabled access to the local boats (something that should be standard provision from a council). He didnt seem to realise that only 1 tope was caught from Whitby last year and that that was hardly something to build a business upon.
I think Paul and the others need to undertsnad that all these people are discussing your future, and the only people not involved in discussing the local charter skippers future is the local charter skipper himself.
As for fishing clubs as we know them now. Are they ruined too ?

Edited by glennk, 21 May 2006 - 12:09 AM.


#2 big_cod

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 04:46 AM

Gleenk the idea of bag limits is sheer madness, if anybody thinks a bag limit on anglers is going to make the slightest difference to cod stocks they are dreaming.
Most people on this forum dont have a clue what has gone on over the last 30 years but those who do i am sure it will make there blood boil reading this and for the goverment to NOW suddenly start talking about anglers with bag limits its just a joke.
Just who the hell is presurizing defra to impose the bag limit theme i wonder.
But some in the commercial fishing industry who have been fishing all there lives will probably look a this and just have a giggle.
If bag limits are imposed i am sure the northeast charter fleet will be in big trouble especially as the the main target is cod fishing not bass, not pollock, COD that is our main catch like i said if defra think bag limits will make any diffence to the cod recovery plan god help them they have lost the plot.
Also the idea of licences just what good is it going to do,it would be just a tax on fishing with a rod a line the money would probably be used to subsidize local sea fishing fisheries patrol boats which means nothing to you ,these boats are allready presently funded by tax payers why add more burden .
You will gain NOTHING by haveing a licence only the hassle of some prick coming to check your licence and when you go home after having a poor day some might say ****s to this fishing game.
It will only do damage to angling a man should ba able to fish with a rod and line in the sea he aint doing any damage to anybody some might say he is ,ITS THOSE WHO ARE SAYING THIS THAT HAVE DONE THE DAMAGE THAT HAS BROUGHT THE SITUATION TO WHERE WE ARE NOW. :angry:

Edited by big_cod, 21 May 2006 - 07:11 AM.

http://sea-otter2.co.uk/

Probably Whitby's most consistent charterboat

Untitled-1.jpg


#3 wurzel

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 06:10 AM

Hello Big Cod

This has nothing what so ever to do with conservation of cod stocks, DEFRA are running out of commercial boats to manage so are looking at anglers, the licence fee will pay for it.

I don't think any commercial fisherman cares one way or another, it is not commercial fishermen lobbying for anglers to pay a licence fee, Angler representatives brought it to DEFRA's attention as to how many and what they thought they were worth , some accountant thought " How many? 1 1/2 million!!! Blimey at £25 per head that will do nicely, better invite them in."

As for bag limits as I've asked before, should they cut the amount of cod your anglers can land or increase my quota to the same amount?

The way it stands at the moment if I get caught landing a couple of boxes over my quota I am prosecuted as a criminal, accused of damaging fish stocks, ruining it for honest fishermen, can you imagine the slagging off I would get from anglers net posters, yet an angling boat can and does on occasions land much more cod than I am allowed.
Perhaps you should be allowed to buy or lease enough quotas to keep your anglers happy, you would be in a better position to do so than commercial fishermen, at least you can pass on the cost to your anglers.
I fish to live and live to fish.

#4 Ken Davison South Wales

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 07:19 AM

Licences and bag limits are a far more complex situation than spelled out in the first two posts.

Without a doubt far more RSAs fish without belonging to clubs or going on charter trips and I cannot see an extra £25 making any difference at all to the level of membership of clubs or the number of people taking charter trips.

I do firmly believe that stricter control of size limits is more crucial than bag limits but the two in some cases should go hand in hand.

I love fishing, the fresh air and all that goes with it, catching is the draw, the uncertainty which keeps bringing me back, the hope I get that double figure bass or three pound plus flounder, not the amount of fish I can take home.

What are the plusses for a licence? A very big shout in how things are controlled for one, bringing into account all those who just pick up a rod without giving the wider picture a single thought, bring these so called recreational weekend netters into the fold of conservation and a lot more aspects as well.

If I fished for the table we would probably starve and so would most anglers if they kept to the letter of the law regarding size limits, fishing is not about how much I can take home it is about enjoying myself some times on my own and others in excellent company and it is worth every penny of twenty five pounds per year, or fifty pence a week, less than a penny per day. :fishing: :whistling:
I fish, I catches a few, I lose a few, BUT I enjoys. Anglers Trust PM



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#5 big_cod

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 07:24 AM

Hello Big Cod

This has nothing what so ever to do with conservation of cod stocks, DEFRA are running out of commercial boats to manage so are looking at anglers, the licence fee will pay for it.

I don't think any commercial fisherman cares one way or another, it is not commercial fishermen lobbying for anglers to pay a licence fee, Angler representatives brought it to DEFRA's attention as to how many and what they thought they were worth , some accountant thought " How many? 1 1/2 million!!! Blimey at £25 per head that will do nicely, better invite them in."

As for bag limits as I've asked before, should they cut the amount of cod your anglers can land or increase my quota to the same amount?

The way it stands at the moment if I get caught landing a couple of boxes over my quota I am prosecuted as a criminal, accused of damaging fish stocks, ruining it for honest fishermen, can you imagine the slagging off I would get from anglers net posters, yet an angling boat can and does on occasions land much more cod than I am allowed.
Perhaps you should be allowed to buy or lease enough quotas to keep your anglers happy, you would be in a better position to do so than commercial fishermen, at least you can pass on the cost to your anglers.


Peter we have gone down this road before the shortage of cod has nothing to do with anglers never has done and never will do, practices over the years have brought things to a head but to suddenly try to impose bag limits to anglers now that is really takeing the **** mismanagement by defra turning a blind eye for years over the years its all by the by now done and dusted but to turn on anglers now that really is taking the buscuit,why should anglers be penalized for something they have played no part in. :wacko:

Edited by big_cod, 21 May 2006 - 08:09 AM.

http://sea-otter2.co.uk/

Probably Whitby's most consistent charterboat

Untitled-1.jpg


#6 wurzel

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 07:51 AM

Hello Big Cod

Peter we have gone down this road before the shortage of cod has nothing to do with anglers never has done and never will do

Is there a shortage of cod then?

Quote
why should anglers be penalized for something they have played no part in.

I could say exactly the same thing about small commercial boats.

Quote
If bag limits are imposed i am sure the northeast charter fleet will be in big trouble especially as the the main target is cod

Sounds like

We can't make a living on these quotas.

Well welcome to the club Big Cod
I fish to live and live to fish.

#7 Leon Roskilly

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 07:51 AM

I think that it's worth reproducing the whole of the post so that the information remains in context (it's a whole package of measures that need to be considered together, taking a single element of any eventual package and discusssing that in isolation tends to mislead the deabte, and how the angling community mobilises to respond):

This is what the DEFRA Consultation Document on the Marine Bill has to say:
(see http://www.defra.gov...ebill/index.htm )

7.26 As part of our commitment to a more active approach to managing recreational fisheries, we need to consider what provisions may be necessary in the Marine Bill to achieve our aims.

This may include such measures as introducing “bag limits” for recreational and hobby fishermen to ensure that the impacts of such activities do not adversely affect stocks in the absence of effort control or quota management arrangements applicable in these areas.

As part of an overall strategy to actively manage recreational sea angling and allow angling interests to play a stronger role in the management of fishery resources, we will also investigate whether we need powers to charge anglers should this be identified as a preferred option.

(note: the reference to 'hobby fishermen' is a reference to unlicensed netters, potters, trawlers who are fishing 'for the pot' and who are not selling fish illegally)

So, the government now has it's eyes firmly set on both charging anglers and introducing bag limits and other measures.

Although dressed up as a 'consultation document', IMO the debate that anglers should now be having is no longer "Should we or shouldn't we have a licence".

That time has passed and things have moved on.

A licence now seems to be firmly in DEFRA's sights (although we should still continue to point out to them that a licence will only be acceptable if anglers are being asked to pay for fishery management that is already delivering benefits to anglers).

What we now should be talking about ourselves is "If the government imposes a licence on Recreational Sea Anglers, what kind of package do anglers want from that?"

If the final package introduced by the government means that money collected is simply handed over to the SFCs to finance fishery management for the benefit of commercial fisherman, then that is a very different situation to a package of beneficial measures that need financing by anglers.

Such a package might include recreational fishing only areas; species managed principally with the intention of developing the recreational fishery; restrictions on inshore netting; expansion of nursery areas and perhaps their introduction for a number of species; and enhancements to recreational fishery areas including artificial reefs etc.

We need strong angling representation to prevent DEFRA imposing an unwelcome licence on anglers, and we need strong representation, if the government is determined to go ahead with imposing a licence, to ensure that anglers get the best deal possible from that.



As for enfocement of regulations on anglers.

That goes on now.

From the Chief Fisheries Officer's report to the Kent & Essex Sea Fisheries Committee recently:

Several checks of anglers on Clacton Pier, Clacton Beach, Walton Pier, Southend Pier, Southend Beaches, and jetties on Canvey have been carried out this year.

Five verbal warnings have been issued to anglers all on Southen Pier for retaining undersize fish


Edited by Leon Roskilly, 21 May 2006 - 07:54 AM.

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#8 glennk

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 08:13 AM

To a north east town Ken the issue is no more complex than spelt out in those first 2 posts. A bag Limit spells disaster. A small industry, 20 boats, 20 skippers and their deckhands go out of business because the governement thinks its doing anglers a favour and the funniest thing of all is those it will ruin know sod all about what is happening. Make no mistake they are doing no one in these parts a favour. Your experience of a fishing club is not the norm in the north east either in fact I cant think of one that is the same. Within 30 mile of my home I can think of many many fishing clubs:
  • Whitby sea anglers
  • Cloughton Club
  • Filey Club
  • Scarborough Rock anglers
  • South cliff angling club
  • Bridlington club
  • Saltburn club
  • Redcar Navey and Gentlemens
  • Middlesbrough St Mary's
to name but a few who fish the same way as we do and once you get North of the Tees the amount of similer club's increases in number with every little town and even village having a fishing club similer to ours with many years of history. I in no way intend to ditract from your experience as it is obviously valuable to you, but you must realise not everywhere is the same. Our charter industry and fishing clubs are not based on a drop of fresh air and a couple of flat fish or that holy grail of a bass, its a serious matter, in fact to some it's our lives.

#9 big_cod

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 08:18 AM

[quote name='wurzel' post='629155' date='May 21 2006, 08:51 AM']
Hello Big Cod

Peter we have gone down this road before the shortage of cod has nothing to do with anglers never has done and never will do

Is there a shortage of cod then?

Quote
why should anglers be penalized for something they have played no part in.

I could say exactly the same thing about small commercial boats.

Quote
If bag limits are imposed i am sure the northeast charter fleet will be in big trouble especially as the the main target is cod

Sounds like

We can't make a living on these quotas.

Well welcome to the club Big Cod

There is one thing you are forgetting peter is WHY there is a so called shortage of cod.
Millions of small codling over the years gone back over the side and millions is not an underestimate.
[/quote

And binitone wont be on till tonight he is on a 10HR CHARTER TODAY.

Edited by big_cod, 21 May 2006 - 08:21 AM.

http://sea-otter2.co.uk/

Probably Whitby's most consistent charterboat

Untitled-1.jpg


#10 Ken Davison South Wales

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 08:19 AM

How much is a charter trip, how much is spent on bait, eating out and pub after trip?

Tell me how less than a penny per day can have any chance of ruining that.
I fish, I catches a few, I lose a few, BUT I enjoys. Anglers Trust PM



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