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Is it the end for charter skippers and fishing clubs? No time to bury your heads


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#21 wurzel

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 08:51 AM

Hello Sam

Quote
There are always common sense answers that DEFRA will need educating by charter skippers.


The problem is DEFRA don't do common sence.
I fish to live and live to fish.

#22 JRT

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 08:58 AM

What's wrong with bag limits? Suggesting that charters don't impact fish stocks is just stupid, of course they do. Every fish taken out of the see has SOME impact, even if it small. A charter can wipe out most of a shoal of large bass on a good day.

All takers of fish, commercials and recreational should be managed as they seem incapable of restraint. 1 rule for all.

If anglers use charters to fill their freezers then they are not anglers, they are commercials so good bloody ridence that they go 'bust'. If an angler is not happy with C&R and keeping a couple for the pot they should grow up.

JRT

#23 Ian Burrett

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 09:07 AM

There are going to be changes and as Leon said, "We need strong angling representation to prevent DEFRA imposing an unwelcome licence on anglers" but I would change that to prevent Defra imposing any unwelcome legislation; because another fear I have for the future of our sport is the Marine Parks.

Government Scientists and organisations like the WWF are calling for huge closed areas which will be dressed up as Marine Parks. Eventually these are going to, have to happen as their will be no alternative to rebuild the stocks.

RSA is going to have to be organised and have the ear of the government or we will get the backlash of the No Take Zones, in the Marine Parks.

It's no good moaning, "Why should anglers be banned from an area that has been destroyed by commercial fihermen and has nothing to do with angling pressure?"

IMO this could be a reality if the majority of anglers don't get behind the organisations like the NFSA and the SACN.

The license could be the best thing that could happen to RSA, as it might be the only leverage we will have against the government. If the government introduces the license, just think of the national publicity it will achieve, if anglers on recommendations by the above mentioned organisations refused to pay it till our demands are met. They couldn't take us all to court. The government will not want to risk that happening so will have to give in to some of our demands.

I personally think it is time we stopped pussyfooting around this license issue and for RSA to get proactive, with our own RSA charter. Rather than the "wait and see" tactics employed at the moment we should be telling the government to forget about the license unless they accept certain conditions.

The tricky bit is deciding; What we really really want.
The petty squabbles that developed over the BMP shows what a difficult task this will be, as different regions want different things from their fishing. but if RSA doesn't put on a united front with the backing of the rank and file member then we will be sxat upon by the government.

Over the next few months we should be formulating an RSA charter that takes into account regional differences like the North East where a two fish rule might cause hardship.

In an ideal world, organisations like the SACN would have a Yorkshire and an Essex division and each region would have their imput on the overall recommendations contained in the charter, but it would take a lot more anglers to get of their axxes for that to happen.

I am not suggesting that Big Cod starts imposing a fish limit on his boat in one fell swoop but if he actively promotes catch and relase, over a period of time, I think he would be suprised how many anglers are happy to see the fish swim back. From my experience even the greatest "White fillet hunter" can be educated to "fish for sport not the pot"

Edited by Ian Burrett, 21 May 2006 - 09:19 AM.

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#24 big_cod

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 09:15 AM

What's wrong with bag limits? Suggesting that charters don't impact fish stocks is just stupid, of course they do. Every fish taken out of the see has SOME impact, even if it small. A charter can wipe out most of a shoal of large bass on a good day.

All takers of fish, commercials and recreational should be managed as they seem incapable of restraint. 1 rule for all.

If anglers use charters to fill their freezers then they are not anglers, they are commercials so good bloody ridence that they go 'bust'. If an angler is not happy with C&R and keeping a couple for the pot they should grow up.

JRT


You my friend JRT do not represent me or my association or any other charterboat working legally out of the uk as bag limits for BASS if you want that that is your preference as to saying charterboars should go bust i think you are talking out of your backside, and as we do not target bass up here we should not in any way be associated with YOUR bag limits.

Edited by big_cod, 21 May 2006 - 09:15 AM.

http://sea-otter2.co.uk/

Probably Whitby's most consistent charterboat

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#25 glennk

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 09:16 AM

You make some good points there Ian.

I personally am reluctant to back NFSA. They dont seem to recognise us up here in the NE and are full of members like JRT. In the past I tried to have discussions with them over the phone and they didnt even have the courtesy to return the call. If its not about Bass and fishing in the South they havent time for you. I will be suggesting our fishing club money goes to a different organisation next year.

Paul

These are the people consulted on the marine Bill why Your association isnt on there or how you get it added I dont dont know.

http://www.defra.gov...consultlist.htm

#26 big_cod

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 09:25 AM

Ian what concerns me is that we will have to pay a substantial levey to the licenceing people ,not all anglers will have a licence to go angling and we will have to pay for a block licence to allow anglers onto the charterboats just another tax as far as i am concerned dont we pay enough expences in this game rocketing fuel prices etc it just goes on and on .
Even some anglers will think we cant go fishing we have no licence the numbers will drop and that is a fact it will affect you and me it will take time to get things in perspective.

http://sea-otter2.co.uk/

Probably Whitby's most consistent charterboat

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#27 Norm B

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 09:26 AM

There are going to be changes and as Leon said, "We need strong angling representation to prevent DEFRA imposing an unwelcome licence on anglers" but I would change that to prevent Defra imposing any unwelcome legislation; because another fear I have for the future of our sport is the Marine Parks.

Government Scientists and organisations like the WWF are calling for huge closed areas which will be dressed up as Marine Parks. Eventually these are going to, have to happen as their will be no alternative to rebuild the stocks.

RSA is going to have to be organised and have the ear of the government or we will get the backlash of the No Take Zones, in the Marine Parks.

It's no good moaning, "Why should anglers be banned from an area that has been destroyed by commercial fihermen and has nothing to do with angling pressure?"

IMO this could be a reality if the majority of anglers don't get behind the organisations like the NFSA and the SACN.

The license could be the best thing that could happen to RSA, as it might be the only leverage we will have against the government. If the government introduces the license, just think of the national publicity it will achieve, if anglers on recommendations by the above mentioned organisations refused to pay it till our demands are met. They couldn't take us all to court. The government will not want to risk that happening so will have to give in to some of our demands.

I personally think it is time we stopped pussyfooting around this license issue and for RSA to get proactive, with our own RSA charter. Rather than the "wait and see" tactics employed at the moment we should be telling the government to forget about the license unless they accept certain conditions.

The tricky bit is deciding; What we really really want.
The petty squabbles that developed over the BMP shows what a difficult task this will be, as different regions want different things from their fishing. but if RSA doesn't put on a united front with the backing of the rank and file member then we will be sxat upon by the government.

Over the next few months we should be formulating an RSA charter that takes into account regional differences like the North East where a two fish rule might cause hardship.

In an ideal world, organisations like the SACN would have a Yorkshire and an Essex division and each region would have their imput on the overall recommendations contained in the charter, but it would take a lot more anglers to get of their axxes for that to happen.

I am not suggesting that Big Cod starts imposing a fish limit on his boat in one fell swoop but if he actively promotes catch and relase, over a period of time, I think he would be suprised how many anglers are happy to see the fish swim back. From my experience even the greatest "White fillet hunter" can be educated to "fish for sport not the pot"



#28 big_cod

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 09:33 AM

You make some good points there Ian.

I personally am reluctant to back NFSA. They dont seem to recognise us up here in the NE and are full of members like JRT. In the past I tried to have discussions with them over the phone and they didnt even have the courtesy to return the call. If its not about Bass and fishing in the South they havent time for you. I will be suggesting our fishing club money goes to a different organisation next year.

Paul

These are the people consulted on the marine Bill why Your association isnt on there or how you get it added I dont dont know.

http://www.defra.gov...consultlist.htm


Whitby charter skippers have a metting with our local mp regarding another issue in a couple of weeks but i think this matter of bag limits will now be a top of our agenda to get things rolling also i will be contacting other organizations regarding the possiblity of things to come i think there may well be a some very angry people out there when they find out that so called bag limits could be imposed upon them without being consulted.
Some people think it is a good idea for there particular sport but this should not be acrross the board.

Edited by big_cod, 21 May 2006 - 09:33 AM.

http://sea-otter2.co.uk/

Probably Whitby's most consistent charterboat

Untitled-1.jpg


#29 Norm B

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 09:34 AM

What's wrong with bag limits? Suggesting that charters don't impact fish stocks is just stupid, of course they do. Every fish taken out of the see has SOME impact, even if it small. A charter can wipe out most of a shoal of large bass on a good day.

All takers of fish, commercials and recreational should be managed as they seem incapable of restraint. 1 rule for all.

If anglers use charters to fill their freezers then they are not anglers, they are commercials so good bloody ridence that they go 'bust'. If an angler is not happy with C&R and keeping a couple for the pot they should grow up.

JRT

:clap2: I am in favour of bag limits, providing they are sensible and fair. I am also in favour of charter boats having a quota, again, provided it is fair. We anglers do have an impact on stocks, some more than others and I've seen greedy anglers taking more fish than they can ever eat. Unfortunately I don't think DEFRA will ever be fair to RSA's, it's their mindset, they've always looked after the commercial sector and I don't think we will change their mind set. Until we get a totally independant organisation to work out quotas for both the commercials and charter boats along with bag limits for anglers we won't have a lot of faith in the system. I'd love to be proved wrong but I'm sure I won't. :clap2:

#30 Ian Burrett

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 09:41 AM

[quote name='glennk' date='May 21 2006, 10:16 AM' post='629192']
You make some good points there Ian.

I personally am reluctant to back NFSA. They dont seem to recognise us up here in the NE and are full of members like JRT. In the past I tried to have discussions with them over the phone and they didnt even have the courtesy to return the call. If its not about Bass and fishing in the South they havent time for you. /quote]

Hi Glen
Do you not think that the NFSA back the Bass because Bass anglers were the first to get organised and starting challenging the government?
I am sure the NFSA would back any sensible angler led scheme involving a Cod management plan. They have given SOS total support; their officers and also B.A.S.S are actively pushing the tope message when meeting with Defra officials.

If anglers and clubs don't get behind the national federations (even if it means changing them from within)then RSA has no future and we will be left with the titbits the government has to offer

Edited by Ian Burrett, 21 May 2006 - 09:42 AM.

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