Who should represent sea anglers?

[Steve Coppolo]

You hit the nail on the head steve and when these organisations realise that the back yard extends as far north as the tip of Scotland then we may be getting somewhere.

 

Bass Bass Bass thats all we here from these organisations. I supported the bass thing I am now beginning to regret that. What ive read on here today from the likes of JRT confirms that a lot of people do only care about their backyard. Im alright Jack appears to be the philosophy. He had need start spouting if the bass mls falls flat on its face.

 

 

Like I said Glenn, there will always be a first step. It just happens that the bass proposal was the first step. If it had been the same proposal but to do with cod, I'm sure it would have got the same attention and backing from anglers around the country. I know I'd back it.

[seaside]

You hit the nail on the head steve and when these organisations realise that the back yard extends as far north as the tip of Scotland then we may be getting somewhere.

 

Bass Bass Bass thats all we here from these organisations. I supported the bass thing I am now beginning to regret that. What ive read on here today from the likes of JRT confirms that a lot of people do only care about their backyard. Im alright Jack appears to be the philosophy. He had need start spouting if the bass mls falls flat on its face.

 

Not a go at you Steve, but this does highlight a big issue - there's also the Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland too, along with their devolved governments which combine to create local and political variations.

 

Any organisation cannot afford to get focussed on single issues and/or single areas, elsewise you pee off a load of others who aren't affected, then everyone starts saying TFSA aren't worth diddly, all they focus on is ........, then it's back to divide and rule and total confusion.

 

So objectives should be aimed a higher level, identifying and discussing issues that affect all and working with Government, quangos', local 'politicians' to get these issues addressed. Bass should only be a component of a wider issue aimed at ensuring the continuing viability of certain species in certain areas and include others such as Tope, Skate, Spurdog, Shark etc etc.

 

A single body, addressing UK issues at a national level would give RSA the strongest voice and the greatest political leverage.

 

The biggest question though to me, is there support for such a body and is there the appetite there to ensure it doesn't become yet another well structured organisation specialising at producing minutes correct to the highest level of detail.

[Leon Roskilly]

Like I said Glenn, there will always be a first step. It just happens that the bass proposal was the first step. If it had been the same proposal but to do with cod, I'm sure it would have got the same attention and backing from anglers around the country. I know I'd back it.

 

 

The bass proposals didn't just suddenly appear out of thin air.

 

The foundations were built over many years, with the foundation of BASS and a gathering of knowledge about the species, conservation in general, and experience of engagement with fishery managers at all levels.

 

That meant that when the time was ripe, the BMP could be put together as a cohesive document, drawing on the expertise of many individuals in fields such as the science of bass, the economics of both recreational sea angling and the catching sector targeting bass, the law and regulations that needed amending or creating and the processes as to how to go about that, how to publicise and get support for the proposals, who to lobby and how etc.,

 

Then there were the meetings with the anglers directly involved prepared to travel from different parts of the country to thrash out the details.

 

And it isn't only about bass, part of the appeal of the bmp, as well as considering the needs of the catching sector (the proposal from the Prime Minister's Strategy Unit was for bass to be looked at as a 'wholly' Recreational species, and the mls that anglers were looking for was 55cm not 45cm), the plan would also bring benefits to many other inshore species through 'no fishing' nursery areas and netting restrictions as well as highlighting the value and needs of the Recreational Sea Angling sector generally.

 

If Whitby cod anglers had put in the same amount of work to produce a cod management plan, or the charter skippers around the country had gotten together to produce a plan for the development of the coastal angling charter boat sector, they would have recieved the same level of support from the major organisations, such as the SACN and NFSA etc

 

As the National Mullet Club are recieving now for their Mullet Conservation Paper and Save Our Sharks are recieving for proposals to protect tope.

 

It would be nice to have a well supported, well funded organisation that could carry out an integrated development plan for all species and all locations, but to do something like that in a sensible timescale would require vast resources that simply are not available.

 

So, in the real world, the angling community tends to help those who help themselves, with the major organisations willing to give advice, help to smooth the path to the table, and mobilise support and publicity.

 

For those that prefer, or only have the opportunity, to fish for (say) cod, I can see that it is frustrating to see bass seemingly getting all of the intention, as is often the case with trail-blazers.

 

But what you see is the result of hard work and commitment over many years by people who are interested in catching bass, and conserving bass stocks.

 

It is a pity that, rather than follow their example, some anglers possibly feeling left out, rather than supporting them, can only decry their efforts and ask 'what about us?', as though the BMP simply dropped out of the sky.

 

If you want the fishing improved for your species, or in your area, it isn't going to happen by magic.

 

There is no organisation with the expertise and resources that is able to do it for you.

 

But there is support available for those that can get organised and draft a well-thought-through proposal (like the bmp) that takes into account most of the science, economics, politics, law etc that needs to be included so that fishery managers and government ministers will be able to take it seriously, and perhaps even take it forward with support from the wider angling community.

 

It ain't easy, it's not ideal, it might not even work.

 

But it is the way to get attention for your particular issues.

 

Incidentally, a number of the major angling organisations have been talking to DEFRA and other stakeholders about the need to produce an overall strategy for the devlopment of RSA in the UK, which is being taken forward.

 

One of the arguments put forward is that DEFRA need to produce such a strategy, or find themselves inundated by seperate plans from different angling interest groups, but even if such a plan does transpire, it will need those anglers with special interests to be involved to ensure that their interests are not left out, and to provide the particular expertise needed to take their interests forward, so a development plan for a particular species or area etc still needs to be compiled by someone, so that it can be integrated into a wider strategy.

 

What we always have to remember is that an ideal world is something we don't have, and never will.

 

Using that as an excuse for not pushing ahead with what we can gets none of us anywhere.

 

We need to recognise the world we live in; the system we have; for what it is, and work with that to bring about the changes we want and need to see.

Edited May 22, 2006 by Leon Roskilly

[Leon Roskilly]

A single body, addressing UK issues at a national level would give RSA the strongest voice and the greatest political leverage.

 

The biggest question though to me, is there support for such a body and is there the appetite there to ensure it doesn't become yet another well structured organisation specialising at producing minutes correct to the highest level of detail.

 

 

We now have FACT

 

see: http://anglingsites.com/saa/politicsinfo/structures.htm

 

The NFSA Conservation Group forms the Marine Group dealing with RSA matters within FACT

 

FACT through Martin Salter is organising another 'Angling Summit' that will take place next month, at which Ben Bradshaw will be present.

 

And so will SACN and BASS, along with the NFSA.

 

And no doubt will also be members of the the new All Party Parlimentary Group for angling.

 

See: http://www.anglers-net.co.uk/sacn/latest/index.php?view=577

 

 

The trouble with 'supergroups' that aim to promote the interests of all anglers everywhere, is that the bigger they tend to get, and the more interests they try to represent, the slower and more ponderous they become, and the more focussed on their own internal issues.

 

IMO There will always be the need for 'special interest groups' driven by a passion and tightly focussed on detailed issues, to drive forward particular proposals, like dogs that refuse to let go!

[Guest binatone]

I cannot believe that you as anglers are letting there so called representatives and others destroy what was once a free and rightful sport pastime hobby.

They have highlighted over the years how many RSA there are in this country, what benefit they could be to the country (in regards of paying taxes) without any consultation with the majority of anglers that fish.

So they have made up there own committees and tell every body they are only trying to promote sea angling. But do sea anglers want sea angling promoting? and as you can see from the above have already got in place what they think that should be put in place once the government has got it’s money of the RSA and defra have imposed there bag limits to keep them at the forefront and therefore keep there departments happy.

You talk about an ideal world Leon, my ideal world was to go angling whenever I wanted to go because I was fortunate like many other anglers to live by the sea.

My ideal word Leon was to be able to catch as many fish as I wanted (not that I can ever catch many) for my family.

In my ideal world I could do something in my spare time that I did not have to pay to this government for to do.

But that’s not your ideal world is it Leon. There’s no power to be had there is there?

You say that if the Whitby charter boats would have followed the line of the BSA they would and could get the support of SACN or NFSA. Well haven’t you ever thought that they might not want there support? That they might have been happy with what they had.

Now look what YOU and your so called promoters of angling have done.

If rod licences and bag limits are introduced in this part of the country then it will mean the end of recreational angling as Whitby has known it for as far back as anybody remembers.

Ill still go to sea, or clime down the rocks, but it won’t seam the same knowing that because of a few, so many have had something taken away from them.

I do not blame the government one bit on what is about to happen. Who I do blame are the people who encouraged them to do it.

[seaside]

We now have FACT

 

see: http://anglingsites.com/saa/politicsinfo/structures.htm

 

The NFSA Conservation Group forms the Marine Group dealing with RSA matters within FACT

 

FACT through Martin Salter is organising another 'Angling Summit' that will take place next month, at which Ben Bradshaw will be present.

 

And so will SACN and BASS, along with the NFSA.

 

And no doubt will also be members of the the new All Party Parlimentary Group for angling.

 

See: http://www.anglers-net.co.uk/sacn/latest/index.php?view=577

The trouble with 'supergroups' that aim to promote the interests of all anglers everywhere, is that the bigger they tend to get, and the more interests they try to represent, the slower and more ponderous they become, and the more focussed on their own internal issues.

 

IMO There will always be the need for 'special interest groups' driven by a passion and tightly focussed on detailed issues, to drive forward particular proposals, like dogs that refuse to let go!

 

Leon - can't dispute the fact that 'supergroups' can become ponderous, which is why I said " .... and is there the appetite there to ensure it doesn't become yet another well structured organisation specialising at producing minutes correct to the highest level of detail."

 

I also agree that special interest groups are great for focus and driving forward issues for that special interest, but in an isolated context they may be not seen as working for the overall benefit of RSA and whilst achieving their objectives may quite easily alienate others.

 

If the goal of the original question was who is to address national issues, for arguments sake - licences or catch limits, then surely there would need to be an umberella organistion or coalition, otherwise as we've seen before, the argument will be diluted into - oh it's those BASS guys again.

 

I looked at the FAST releases - seems to me they are not particularily focussed on RSA or any special interest area within it, and they only quote "..... represent fisheries and angling interests in England and Wales".

[Leon Roskilly]

Binatone,

 

These things are coming whether angling is 'represented' or not.

 

Sticking your head in the sand and keeping quiet will not protect you in a changing world.

 

People once were able to drive without seatbelts or worrying overmuch about having a few pints, or going too fast.

 

But as the roads became more crowded, the economics of accidents realised, the days when people went 'out for a drive' simply for the pleasure of driving along the road were over.

 

And so a similar thing is happening, as examples of fishery management, and the contributions to be made from Recreational Sea Angling are recognised world wide, and increasingly government seeks to identify and consult with an increasing number of stakeholders within the marine environment.

 

Licensing, bag-limits?

 

These are the least of our worries.

 

There are those that want large areas of inshore waters closed off to all activities, whether that is justified or not.

 

There are those who instinctively dislike the idea of people getting their kicks from sticking hooks into fish.

 

There are those who want to stop anglers fishing piers, harbours, docks etc because of public liabilities, issues of security, but most of all because they are (in their view) a bloody nuisance.

 

Not speaking up when you have the opportunity.

 

Not organising to present the most powerful voice possible.

 

That is one way to ensure that when the cake is sliced, you don't get even the tiniest bit, and you will be prevented from ever doing so, no matter how much you are expected to contribute.

 

What's coming is coming, and if all anglers can do is to stay with their heads in the sand, hoping that they can continue doing what they have always done, catching what they have always caught, in a rapidly changing world, then God help us!

[Leon Roskilly]

I looked at the FAST releases - seems to me they are not particularily focussed on RSA or any special interest area within it, and they only quote "..... represent fisheries and angling interests in England and Wales".

 

Yep, I agree.

 

Game anglers and coarse anglers have been better organised than sea anglers for years, and so they have quite a few representative organisations, each needing a seat at the FACT table, whereas sea anglers only have the one organisation representing them, the NFSA.

 

But it was at an Angling Summit, organised by FACT, that the Ben Bradshaw was first presented with the BMP, and it cuaght his imagination.

 

Until now, our voice has been far too quiet, and whereas the governments in England, Wales and Scotland have been falling over themselves to develop the sport of freshwater angling, sea anglers have allowed themeselves to be hung out to dry.

 

In England and Wales, that has begun to change.

 

In Scotland, sea angling still seems to be being given the run around by Ross Finnie - though hopefully the noise that Scottish sea anglers, and those who visit Scotland, are beginning to make will bring about change even there.

Edited May 22, 2006 by Leon Roskilly

[Leon Roskilly]

There’s no power to be had there is there?

 

 

er, What power are you talking about Binatone?

[stavey]

You hit the nail on the head steve and when these organisations realise that the back yard extends as far north as the tip of Scotland then we may be getting somewhere.

 

Bass Bass Bass thats all we here from these organisations. I supported the bass thing I am now beginning to regret that. What ive read on here today from the likes of JRT confirms that a lot of people do only care about their backyard. Im alright Jack appears to be the philosophy. He had need start spouting if the bass mls falls flat on its face.

 

Hi glenn hows it going, have you sent your petition in yet? i know what you mean and understand how you feel about bass, as you know i am dahn south but it just so happens that (believe it or not) i am not that fussed about bass angling much, my main interests(99%) lie with another species ie, mullet.

 

Mullet we all know inhabit the same areas as bass and if some organisation has worked there butt off to try and improve things for there species which could also lead to any chances of helping another species of one's own interest directly or indirectly, then it would be foolish imho not to give it the full backing it deserves.

 

Glenn if this global warming does start to realy take hold? maybe you and your area in time will reap the benefits of such measures (if brought in) like the bmp as will most of the country as bass and mullet migrate further north in ever increasing numbers.

You are realy lucky to still have some cod to catch off your beaches and rock marks their" down here there is none what so ever "period" there was and plenty of them but as you know it is finished, the only chance for them to return is for the southern north sea stock to explode and some just might venture down the channel, do we miss them? well as the saying goes" do bears sh*t in the woods, so if anybody was to put proposals forward for cod i would have no hessitation in backing them 100% what so ever, the only opposition would come from the commercials as they will oppose anything to do with any restrictions as they see it to them, understandable but very one sighted and predictable as our newly appointed rsa's have found out on the sfc's (i think you will find it impossible to change them from the inside fella's).

 

Imo leon/steve etc, and all the guys that have put a lot of unpaid effort in the last few years on our behalf's have inevitably spread themselves a little to thin, this is not a crytisism it is just that not enough of us have given a damn in sea angling realy, and that is still where we are now, i am just as frustrated as them and i have not put in a tick turds an effort compared to what these guys have.

 

I have joined the national mullet club this year (first time in many years) so my efforts (if they so wish?) to do with conservation will be mainly with this organisation and this species but i shal not ignore any other plans or proposals now or in the future that may come about that include other species nationally or localy, and that includes your cod in your back yard glenn cheers..............

Edited May 22, 2006 by stavey