Guernsey Consulting on Bag Limits for Anglers

[Puffin]

Also - gossip for you all - apparently one of the commercial boats had a 38lb turbot last week with a blue trace in it's mouth. Did anyone here lose it??

 

That'll be the one I put back. Did I forget to take the hook out then?

[Norm B]

This seems to already be happening, last year the pages on Deepsea.co.uk were full of 'flatty bonanza' and other such headlines, and there were pictures of decks paved in turbot. This year there have been no pictures of big hauls, and there's a lot of 'Another nice one boated, but for everyone that we keep we do return several others.' type comments.

 

 

 

Experience - in my experience the average size has dropped this year, to the extent that I haven't bothered flatty bashing since april.

 

 

 

Also - gossip for you all - apparently one of the commercial boats had a 38lb turbot last week with a blue trace in it's mouth. Did anyone here lose it??

Can I have my hook back please, I thought it was a tope I lost, not a turbo charged turbot.

[Sharkbyte]

I had it on good authority that a couple of UK charters were going to be entering next years Guernsey Bass comps.

 

Unlikely with the new proposal on the horizon.

[steve good]

I can follow the arguement that there is no case for the impostion of a Bass bag limit and am willing to believe this consultation may have began in the RSA/Commercial dispute over that one bass fishery,; but what about the big flatfish?

 

hi jaffa

 

dispute is over bass brill and turbot

 

I fish rod and line have done all my life full time fisherman for 30 years catch bass on rods all that time

 

i have found bass brill and turbot banks been swamped out by anglers and charter boats all the time

 

the thing is all these banks been fished out sometimes takes a year or two other banks take alot longer but they two been fished out

 

the secret to earning a living like i do is keep finding new banks

 

channel islands bass brill and turbot will be fished out it is just a matter of time

 

there will be no winners or losers just be all losers

 

the commercials fish trot lines for turbot and brill, they got this off me via rod barr from bridport , cor must be back in the early 80's

 

thing is now there are to many people at it now what with all the charter boats to much fishing pressure the bubble will bursted

 

sfc got it right i think so

 

it works like this, carryy on with the existing fishing pressure it will get fished out, which means local commercial guys got no job, which means more local unenployment charterboats from uk do not come anymore and local hotals lose out every ones loses

 

i think the sfc has had pressure put on it to make sure every thing stays as it is which is local fishermen earn a wage local hotals earn and uk charter boats earn a wage and anglers get good fishing

 

people must see that the present amount of fishing presure will collapse the fishery and every one loses out

 

the sfc can see that if uk chartboats take to much then the fishery will collapse it is reasonable and understandable that the sfc will support there local fishermen after all the sfc is funded by the local council and they do not want local fishermen unemployed or the local hotals lose out on the uk trade

 

it goes with out saying that the uk charter bboats and anglers need to bend to local needs so as to continue doing what they do seems reasonable to me . the point is do they see it that way or understand the other point of veiw i think not

 

all consultations have a predetermined outcome thats why they are put out to consultation the secret is to use the consultation to cohuse a slightly better deal to fight it out of hand will be fatal

 

this is my veiw jaffa i have seen it all over the years might be wrong but i would still bet on my veiw lol wise old owl allways have been still what do you think

 

kind regards

 

stephen

[Jaffa]

Hi Steve,

 

Firstly, whats a "trotline" ; im guessing its a longline thats rigged to move? Is that about right?

 

On turbot and brill i can see the commercials point, but why are bass and bream lumped into this ? Okay, bass on a particular bank might be "wiped out" temporarily but surely if the food is there, and given the state of the bass stock atm , new ones will move in?

 

Why are bass and bream included in these proposals in your view?

Edited September 13, 2006 by Jaffa

[Jaffa]

Why would the fpo want to keep us happy? he could have done that by not boarding and taking up our hard earned leisure time.

 

My comment regarding the fpo's comments was only given for information on my experiences on the alderney banks.

 

Regarding my thoughts on the flatfish stocks I can say I have noticed no difference in catch rates experienced on our trips over the past three years. Cant comment on what they may have been like prior to this. From my experience the assumed catch rates of rsa's on the banks have been estimated at the top end of whats possible as we have yet to experience a bonanza day on the flats as reported by some.

 

I'd want to keep you happy if i'd been tasked with gaining info but lacked power.

 

Its hard for someone thats reading about it to make anything of the claims and counter claims about what is caught, but i accept that, given your experience, catch rates are being estimated at the high end. Surely the point is that they are even in that ballpark though?

 

Might be way off the mark here but it strikes me that the charter skippers need to accept they may be having an effect and get this one sorted and fast. The politicos wishing to do their deals/make points will want to drag this into a wider issue.

[Puffin]

Might be way off the mark here but it strikes me that the charter skippers need to accept they may be having an effect and get this one sorted and fast. The politicos wishing to do their deals/make points will want to drag this into a wider issue.

 

Jaffa,

 

Take a look at the thread posted by Andy Marquis about the 2005 Guernsey SFC statistics and you will see that you are indeed off the mark. Huge increases in take by the commercial fleet (Many times more than could ever be taken by anglers in a year) on nearly all the species that are proposed for bag limits, yet there is an allegation of stock depletion against anglers. There is also a statement that there is a "high abundance" of bass, yet a limit is proposed for anglers. Figures for 2005 commercial turbot catch given as 7 tonnes in the "consultation" document when the true figure in their own stats document is 8.1 tonnes. Do you still think the charter skippers and other businesses that rely on angling tourism should be singled out for punishment, or does it start to sound like Guernsey SFC pandering to the whims of the commercials yet?

[FishingGuernsey]

If the Uk anglers do not support the anglers in Guernsey over bag limits and it gets through (God forbid), then it opens up everything for shore bag limits, licences etc and the UK SFC's if they see an "expert" saying the measures have "helped" they WILL follow suit as they will be seen to be being helping.

 

Please please pick up a pen and oppose this rubbish. Restrictions on the commercials are the way to go. Look at the figures from the commercial logbooks. http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=67122

[Jaffa]

Hi Puffin,

 

In the introduction to the 2005 doc we are advised :

 

It is important to note that none of the landings data presented in this report includes catches taken

within the 12 mile sea area by recreational vessels, UK and Jersey licensed vessels, or by the

French. The reader should avoid drawing conclusions about the status of fish stocks from the data

presented, however the information does provide an excellent barometer on the abundance of key

commercial species in Bailiwick waters.

We can look at the days at sea and landings of any sector, even diving , as long its "commercial fishing" . Landings by RSA vessels; a total blank even though they may well be significant for some species....

 

I don't know if they are or not , nor i'd imagine does anyone else reading this forum. Lots of opinions but little data.

 

More opinion:-

 

 

Huge increases in take by the commercial fleet (Many times more than could ever be taken by anglers in a year) on nearly all the species that are proposed for bag limits,

 

 

 

"Huge" ? Most of the bass increase can be accounted for by the BB fishery (for fish likely originating outside Guernsey waters according to the report). Guernsey anglers maybe have a problem with that fishery but i don't understand it yet. Wheres the difference between that one and the centuries old Lofoten cod fishery? It makes sense to me for a local community to make the best of their lucky geography and exploit that seasonal resource.

 

On the other hand, as i understand it and i know little about bass, their are the resident bass that inhabit the sandbanks? Has commercial effort on them changed much? has RSA effort? (not that we get to know much about the latter it seems....)

 

On what grounds do you say catches of turbot and brill for instance (or are they in the "nearly all species" group?") are " many more than could ever be taken by anglers in a year" ? If their catches are anywhere near that then they are significant from what i can see? It may be a significant chunk of whats taken in the whole channel, never mind Guernsey as i understand it, regardless If the true figure is two tonnes, seven tonnes or whatever. It makes RSA a player for in the fate of that species surely? be that local or wider.

[Puffin]

Hi Puffin,

 

In the introduction to the 2005 doc we are advised :

We can look at the days at sea and landings of any sector, even diving , as long its "commercial fishing" . Landings by RSA vessels; a total blank even though they may well be significant for some species....

 

I don't know if they are or not , nor i'd imagine does anyone else reading this forum. Lots of opinions but little data.

 

Precisely! That is why there should be a period of data-gathering on the RSA sector by the introduction of logbooks. That would show the real picture and form a proper basis for decisions.

 

 

 

On what grounds do you say catches of turbot and brill for instance (or are they in the "nearly all species" group?") are " many more than could ever be taken by anglers in a year" ? If their catches are anywhere near that then they are significant from what i can see? It may be a significant chunk of whats taken in the whole channel, never mind Guernsey as i understand it, regardless If the true figure is two tonnes, seven tonnes or whatever. It makes RSA a player for in the fate of that species surely? be that local or wider.

 

It is true that there are no figures to prove what I believe, that being that anglers did not land anything like 7 tonnes of flatfish from the Alderney charters in 2005. Neither is there any hard evidence to support the claim that they did. Therefore action against one "player" and no action against the others is unjustified.

 

That is unless you subscribe to the theory that all the fish in the sea are a feast to be enjoyed by the commercial fishermen and anglers should be grateful for the crumbs from the table.