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Guernsey Consulting on Bag Limits for Anglers


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#21 burhou

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 06:20 PM

Gentlemen, (Mark and Steve); your comments are immensley important to this 'debate' regarding the proposals contained within the Guernsey Consultation document. Please, I urge all of you concerned and informed anglers/interested parties out there to read the document and the valid comments/opinions on this forum regarding it. As stakeholders it is vital that you do not lose this opportunity to write your views to the minister, Stuart Falla. (the address is Senior Sea Fisheries Officer, Commerce and Employment Dept, Raymond Falla House, PO Box 459, Longue Rue, St. Martins, Guernsey GY1 6AF). It is heartening that so many of us can see through these proposals for what they are. Any agreement with these proposals is to hand the 'power' straight back to the commercial sector; there will be no progress in any way in terms of conservation of stocks as we can all see. It's an exceptionally well written and clever letter, attempting to persuade us it has conservation as its aim. But just read Andy and Steve's contributions above and see how their awareness of the whole 'situation' throws a completely different interpretation on it and shows this letter to be the extremely dangerous publication that it is. The timing of it is also excellent in that it follows on from newspaper articles (Guernsey Press, Fishing News, Sunday Express) and radio statemnts from Deputy Duncan Staples in which various serious and unsubstantiated accusations have been made regarding 'black fishing' bu UK charter boats. This, I am sure, was intented to unite local opinion against and 'outside' element and thus shift the focus away from what so many Channel Islanders have been concerned about for so long, namely the Boue Blondel fishery. This looks like it's going to be some battle but maybe this really is the opportunity to clearly state our opinions, on invitation, to the powers that seek to impose restrictions upon us all.
Paul

#22 FishingGuernsey

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 07:02 PM

The worry some locals have shown is that if something like this is brought in targetting "unlicensed" Uk charter boats, will it then be able to easily extend to local pleasure anglers with their own boats and then how easy would it be to move this ontoshore anglers as part of the "conservation" measures??

Is Guernsey to be the test subject for the rumours on other threads of a UK fishing license with bag limits etc etc??? Well i hope not and hopefully I am thinking too much but with all that has been going on locally in recent times, I would not be at all surprised!!
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#23 steve good

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 11:17 PM

The whole document has arisen from the local shortsighted commercials. They have no respect whatsoever for fish stock and are only interested in lining their pockets. they have seen over the years a dramatic increase in UK charters "taking their fish" and hence complained to sea fisheries. As the ringleader of the commercial fleet is a powerful man in local circles, he has been assumed to be correct and that the Uk fleet is decimating local stocks of brill turbot. The Boue Blondel is a red herring in this consultation as the Uk fleet of charter boats do not come down for that in mid winter to my knowledge. the decimation of that stock is by local, UK, Scottish and french commercials. The figures about a "rod and line" fishery are rubbish as the reef is trawled at slack water when the fish move outside the 0.5NM netting ban "area". Tonnes of fish are taken by trawling and rumours are rife regarding some of the local trawlers, some of them quite possibly being true.

The debate is really about the turbot/brill stock on the schole and alderney banks where the trawlers have not been having as much success, they claim due to the Uk boats taking soo much stock and getting in their way. The truth is that this year, we had a much later season for the flats and they have been perfectly abundant on rod and line with a lot being returned. the UK boats don't keep much fish from the banks.

This whole consultation is utter rubbish and definitely not for the benefit of the stock or conservation. It is written by commercials for the benefit of commercials.

I will be responding in due course and also to the local paper.

This, unfortunately, is an example of the commercials using their weight to throw rubbish ideas to politicians who don't have the foggiest and who also refused to be taken on free trips aboard the UK charter boats in Question to see what they really do. The inspections of UK charters are done on the same boats all the time, and these boats are the most successful experienced ones, they do not form an average figure.

The way forward is to increase flattie size limits to something more sensible than the measly 28cm it is now and reduce commercial effort on the species in conjunction with a possible limit on anglers, all at the same time and together. That is how to preserve stocks and help conservation. Allowing the commercials to cintinue unrestricted is farclical in the context of the consultation.

Andy


Hi fishing guernsey

You are way off line with this one

i believe uk charter boats have been selling there catch of turbot brill and bass in the channel isles and back in the uk, i have been asked if i would buy them, but i refused. This is why this situation has come to a head in a nut shell pure greed. Consultation on bags limits over there is SPOT ON

regards steve

#24 alderneyangling

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 08:33 AM

Hi fishing guernsey

You are way off line with this one

i believe uk charter boats have been selling there catch of turbot brill and bass in the channel isles and back in the uk, i have been asked if i would buy them, but i refused. This is why this situation has come to a head in a nut shell pure greed. Consultation on bags limits over there is SPOT ON

regards steve




Name him them and then that takes the pressure of the vast majority that are not involved in that practice!!

#25 FishingGuernsey

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 02:36 PM

Hi fishing guernsey

You are way off line with this one

i believe uk charter boats have been selling there catch of turbot brill and bass in the channel isles and back in the uk, i have been asked if i would buy them, but i refused. This is why this situation has come to a head in a nut shell pure greed. Consultation on bags limits over there is SPOT ON

regards steve



yes. Please name that man. I have had dealing with several of the boats and none of them would even consider selling their catch. It is illegal for them to do this. The skippers would also report their customers if they knew their fish were being sold through the back door. The skippers would find themselves out of a job and without a boat if they were caught doing this. if you want to name by PM, then please go ahead and I will report them to the authorities. There is no room for people who come down here and break the law and they can go back where they came from.
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#26 maverick of Poole

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 08:31 PM

Steve

In your post you have put boats as in more than one and in fact leads us to believe you think all or most charters are selling their fish. I am a regular visitor to the CI's fishing form charter boats and have never come across this. In fact quite the opposite most anglers are very conservation aware and most practice returning fish well above the legal limits. In fact the skipper I come over with insists on returning fish he deems to be juvenile again well above legal limits.

Your comments are offensive to the vast majority of Anglers and uncalled for. If you have information regarding illegal selling of fish do the honourable thing and shop them, donít sling mud. You could also shop those that are buying the fish, as I believe this is also illegal.

Martin
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#27 Norm B

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 10:11 PM

Steve
Snipped
Your comments are offensive to the vast majority of Anglers and uncalled for. If you have information regarding illegal selling of fish do the honourable thing and shop them, donít sling mud. You could also shop those that are buying the fish, as I believe this is also illegal.

Martin

:clap2: I believe the expression is "put up or shut up". Name and shame or please keep quiet, don't cast suspicion on the innnocent. :clap2:

#28 Jaffa

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 10:39 PM

Sounds about right Ken, Why do normal everyday anglers have to suffer for the greed of a few.

Jaffa,

I understand your logic about the big fish. Several ways to look at that I suppose rather than going straight into a bag limit situation where everyone is a loser. I personally do not think that anglers catch enough fish to make that much difference, ask a north east coast skipper to count how many double figure cod they caught this year on their boat and I bet they dont need more fingers than they have on their hand to count them. I also notice it's not ICES or Cefas calling for these measures. They seem to know the culprets. However Ill go with you on this one and for sake of debate. Lets say it is proven that anglers are part of this and removing big spawning fish is going to cure the current crisis. Surely you would place a strict catch and return policy on spawning fish for the spawning season rather than a small bag limit across the whole season. Perhaps you close the areas the fish spawn throughout the spawning season. Im sure most bass anglers follow that policy anyway and rather than a ludicrous bag limit im sure cod anglers would follow suite. If I had to return every double figure cod id caught in my life the total of fish I would have returned in my entire life would be 3. But remeber I dont think it would make any difference whatsoever.

With regard to what you said about prawning. Is ther potentially a ban coming ? I know little of methods used but recently heared a member of NESFC say that there are ways for Prawn fishermen to do away with bye catch over night (something called a grid I think??) why are they unwilling to change methods?


I would not see the sense in placing any kind of bag limit on cod, or most other, sea anglers. Even if it is shown that they are causing real damage, and like you i am unconvinced as yet , then I hope that once word got around a lot more anglers would return the bigger fish more often. Got to be more chance of that producing a result than some effective goverment produced legislation creaking into effect 10 years after the event, or worse still, some crackpot legislation introduced quickly to the latest headline/pressure groups column inches.

A Prawn ban is unlikely but possible; it certainly looks like any commercial boats in the so called cod recovery area are in for a tough time in 2007.

I doubt seperater grids , or anything else, can get to zero discards or anything like it. I'd imagine the lack of uptake is much the same as with square mesh; there can be disadvantages to the boats using them, most boats are working long hours anyway and if they don't catch they don't get paid; tweaking gear a bit is one thing; a big risk to just fit a new net and sail off for the week. Does it need new handling gear/methods, etc etc. Advances like this need either a carrot, like more days at sea/access to more grounds, or a stick that is effective. IME the carrot approach is far more likely to work.

Chris



btw ICES may not say anything about "bag limits" but thats not their job. They are asked how best to preserve cod stocks: They crunch their numbers, and come up with stop killing cod fullstop. Their "bag limit" would be zero for that one question.
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#29 alderneyangling

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 06:52 AM

Hi fishing guernsey

You are way off line with this one

i believe uk charter boats have been selling there catch of turbot brill and bass in the channel isles and back in the uk, i have been asked if i would buy them, but i refused. This is why this situation has come to a head in a nut shell pure greed. Consultation on bags limits over there is SPOT ON

regards steve



Once again for the sake of all the innocent charter skippers with hell of a lot to lose, for all the taxi drivers, restaurants, guesthouses, retail outlets that rely on this source of tourism as well as for the anglers that take thier annual holidays here and enjoy the immense fishing that we are privileged to please name the supplier and receiver of these alleged fish. If you don't Steve you are just another faceless person that is adding to the rumours that persist.

#30 Grant

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 08:20 AM

Andy,

You mention that there are a whole host of boats at Beau Blondel- I thought it was limited to Guernsey only boats, or are those individual boats licensed locally?

I just wondered that if you had a load of non- local boats licensed to fish in your waters?

I know this is a little off topic, but if that is the case, there is one way to reduce fishing pressure? I suspect that I have missed something in the 'Bay' agreement.

Kind regards

Grant
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