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Anyone for Archery?


Chris Plumb

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He's good! :clap3:

John S

Quanti Canicula Ille In Fenestra

 

Species caught in 2017 Common Ash, Hawthorn, Hazel, Scots Pine, White Willow.

Species caught in 2016: Alder, Blackthorn, Common Ash, Crab Apple, Left Earlobe, Pedunculate Oak, Rock Whitebeam, Scots Pine, Smooth-leaved Elm, Swan, Wayfaring tree.

Species caught in 2015: Ash, Bird Cherry, Black-Headed Gull, Common Hazel, Common Whitebeam, Elder, Field Maple, Gorse, Puma, Sessile Oak, White Willow.

Species caught in 2014: Big Angry Man's Ear, Blackthorn, Common Ash, Common Whitebeam, Downy Birch, European Beech, European Holly, Hawthorn, Hazel, Scots Pine, Wych Elm.
Species caught in 2013: Beech, Elder, Hawthorn, Oak, Right Earlobe, Scots Pine.

Species caught in 2012: Ash, Aspen, Beech, Big Nasty Stinging Nettle, Birch, Copper Beech, Grey Willow, Holly, Hazel, Oak, Wasp Nest (that was a really bad day), White Poplar.
Species caught in 2011: Blackthorn, Crab Apple, Elder, Fir, Hawthorn, Horse Chestnut, Oak, Passing Dog, Rowan, Sycamore, Willow.
Species caught in 2010: Ash, Beech, Birch, Elder, Elm, Gorse, Mullberry, Oak, Poplar, Rowan, Sloe, Willow, Yew.

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Hes good but looks terribly gay ,not that i would tell him (wink)

If we had lots of his clones at agincourt perhaps the french problem could have been solved although i think his bow wouldnt have the range or power to penetrate plate armour before he was run down

Edited by chesters1

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

None of this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap it just means i have at least two enemies!

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

Life insurance? you wont enjoy a penny!

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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If we had lots of his clones at agincourt perhaps the french problem could have been solved although i think his bow wouldnt have the range or power to penetrate plate armour before he was run down

The archers of Azincourt were a different breed entirely.

 

We should mark the 25th October in our diaries, as just when the French have thought we have got over celebrating Waterloo, we can wind them up a bit more by celebrating the 600th anniversary of Azincourt .

 

Dug out a few facts about the longbow.

 

A bodkin arrow fired from a 100 lb draw longbow could penetrate the armour of the day at 250 yards (that's a damn long way) and the rate of fire was 17 arrows per minute per archer. 12 out of the 17 arrows were expected to hit a man at that range.

 

Its no wonder archers needed ten years of training, starting in boyhood. Two of the reasons for this long training were firstly to develop the enormous back and shoulder muscles required and secondly to develop the aiming instinct. Longbows were not drawn to the eye like hunting bows were, but to the EAR (to get maximum power) This meant the arrows were not lined up from eye to target, so the aiming had to become instinctive (sounds bloody difficult, but they learnt to do it)

 

By 1815 there were no archers left in England, The Duke of Wellington would have used them at Waterloo if there had been, as archers had a greater accuracy and greater rate of fire than muskets. The snag was the ten years training, as opposed to a few days to learn how to use a musket.

 

The more I read about archers the more awesome their abilities seem.

 

 

RNLI Governor

 

World species 471 : UK species 105 : English species 95 .

Certhia's world species - 215

Eclectic "husband and wife combined" world species 501

 

"Nothing matters very much, few things matter at all" - Plato

...only things like fresh bait and cold beer...

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The archers of Azincourt were a different breed entirely.

 

We should mark the 25th October in our diaries, as just when the French have thought we have got over celebrating Waterloo, we can wind them up a bit more by celebrating the 600th anniversary of Azincourt .

 

Dug out a few facts about the longbow.

 

A bodkin arrow fired from a 100 lb draw longbow could penetrate the armour of the day at 250 yards (that's a damn long way) and the rate of fire was 17 arrows per minute per archer. 12 out of the 17 arrows were expected to hit a man at that range.

 

Its no wonder archers needed ten years of training, starting in boyhood. Two of the reasons for this long training were firstly to develop the enormous back and shoulder muscles required and secondly to develop the aiming instinct. Longbows were not drawn to the eye like hunting bows were, but to the EAR (to get maximum power) This meant the arrows were not lined up from eye to target, so the aiming had to become instinctive (sounds bloody difficult, but they learnt to do it)

 

By 1815 there were no archers left in England, The Duke of Wellington would have used them at Waterloo if there had been, as archers had a greater accuracy and greater rate of fire than muskets. The snag was the ten years training, as opposed to a few days to learn how to use a musket.

 

The more I read about archers the more awesome their abilities seem.

The French could not give a monkeys f@!k about the Hundred Years War or the Napoleonic Wars, with perhaps the exception of my Great Aunt Mary-Yvonne since she lived for many years in Ajaccio, Napoleon's birthplace. For most of them it is just crap they have to learn for their Baccelaureate.

The problem isn't what people don't know, it's what they know that just ain't so.
Vaut mieux ne rien dire et passer pour un con que de parler et prouver que t'en est un!
Mi, ch’fais toudis à m’mote

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The archers of Azincourt were a different breed entirely.

 

We should mark the 25th October in our diaries, as just when the French have thought we have got over celebrating Waterloo, we can wind them up a bit more by celebrating the 600th anniversary of Azincourt .

 

Dug out a few facts about the longbow.

 

A bodkin arrow fired from a 100 lb draw longbow could penetrate the armour of the day at 250 yards (that's a damn long way) and the rate of fire was 17 arrows per minute per archer. 12 out of the 17 arrows were expected to hit a man at that range.

 

Its no wonder archers needed ten years of training, starting in boyhood. Two of the reasons for this long training were firstly to develop the enormous back and shoulder muscles required and secondly to develop the aiming instinct. Longbows were not drawn to the eye like hunting bows were, but to the EAR (to get maximum power) This meant the arrows were not lined up from eye to target, so the aiming had to become instinctive (sounds bloody difficult, but they learnt to do it)

 

By 1815 there were no archers left in England, The Duke of Wellington would have used them at Waterloo if there had been, as archers had a greater accuracy and greater rate of fire than muskets. The snag was the ten years training, as opposed to a few days to learn how to use a musket.

 

The more I read about archers the more awesome their abilities seem.

Drawing to ear and being accurate isn't that hard. The primary achievement is a consistent draw point. So you draw and stop at the same point each and every time.

A lot of people also don't realise just how powerful a true longbow is...50lb draw was considered small...and there is proof of bows upwards of 80lb and towards 100lb draw weight.

Consider a modern hunting compound will draw maybe 75lb if your after elk but it's let off is maybe 80%, so your only pulling a fraction of that weight.

Most people think you raise a bow and then draw. You simply can't effectively do that with a longbow. You draw as you raise. Pushing outwards on the bow and drawing with your shoulders instead of directly pulling with your arm. It's an entirely different technique to how we see modern archers draw.

I've tested a 69lb longbow against a breast plate and it will easily penetrate at 100 yards with a bodkin. Of course bodkins came in several styles, shorter and thicker to pierce plate and with longer thinner versions for maille and leather. The thinner versions will usually buckle before doing any damage to plate, but are hugely effective against maille and the padded jerkins beneath, splitting rings and penetrating well through the padding.

 

Bows from the Mary Rose have been estimated as upwards of 120 lb draw with possibly more going higher than 150lb. Current longbow practitioners I know of are pulling 120lb bows with a few slightly weightier.

Arrow lengths from the Mary Rise are roughly 28" to 30" which again is a very long arrow for today's archers. I shoot a 28" from my hunting compound, which is considered long these days.

Edited by kirisute
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Drawing to ear and being accurate isn't that hard. The primary achievement is a consistent draw point. So you draw and stop at the same point each and every time.

A lot of people also don't realise just how powerful a true longbow is...50lb draw was considered small...and there is proof of bows upwards of 80lb and towards 100lb draw weight.

Consider a modern hunting compound will draw maybe 75lb if your after elk but it's let off is maybe 80%, so your only pulling a fraction of that weight.

Most people think you raise a bow and then draw. You simply can't effectively do that with a longbow. You draw as you raise. Pushing outwards on the bow and drawing with your shoulders instead of directly pulling with your arm. It's an entirely different technique to how we see modern archers draw.

I've tested a 69lb longbow against a breast plate and it will easily penetrate at 100 yards with a bodkin. Of course bodkins came in several styles, shorter and thicker to pierce plate and with longer thinner versions for maille and leather. The thinner versions will usually buckle before doing any damage to plate, but are hugely effective against maille and the padded jerkins beneath, splitting rings and penetrating well through the padding.

 

Bows from the Mary Rose have been estimated as upwards of 120 lb draw with possibly more going higher than 150lb. Current longbow practitioners I know of are pulling 120lb bows with a few slightly weightier.

Arrow lengths from the Mary Rise are roughly 28" to 30" which again is a very long arrow for today's archers. I shoot a 28" from my hunting compound, which is considered long these days.

I think one found on the mary rose was 168lb (no idea how they knew) but i guess there was a stockpile and the archers took one they could draw?

 

Corey if the french couldnt give a stuff why do they close the ports to england everytime they get huffy LOL

Edited by chesters1

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

None of this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap it just means i have at least two enemies!

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

Life insurance? you wont enjoy a penny!

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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Drawing to ear and being accurate isn't that hard. The primary achievement is a consistent draw point..........

 

Arrow lengths from the Mary Rise are roughly 28" to 30" which again is a very long arrow for today's archers.

Very interesting post, Thanks

 

The logistics were important also. We hear a lot about making the bows from the heartwood and sapwood junction of a yew tree, Much less about making arrows.

 

Consider 5000 archers at Azincourt, shooting 17 arrows a minute. A ten minute bombardment would loose 5000 X 10 X 17 arrows - that's a quarter of a million arrows !

 

Anyone any idea of how many arrows an archer carried ?

 

Then there is the production of arrows

 

Shafts of ash , feathers from geese , tips made by blacksmiths, Feathers attached by fletchers, tips attached by arrowsmiths. That is a lot of people involved, to say nothing of collection, storage and transportation. A huge labour-intensive industry. No wonder it was considered very important for archers to collect re-usable arrows after a battle.

 

Some idea of the numbers of people involved is reflected in how common the surname Fletcher is compared with Bowyer and Arrowsmith (or even Archer)

 

 

RNLI Governor

 

World species 471 : UK species 105 : English species 95 .

Certhia's world species - 215

Eclectic "husband and wife combined" world species 501

 

"Nothing matters very much, few things matter at all" - Plato

...only things like fresh bait and cold beer...

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Very interesting post, Thanks

 

The logistics were important also. We hear a lot about making the bows from the heartwood and sapwood junction of a yew tree, Much less about making arrows.

 

Consider 5000 archers at Azincourt, shooting 17 arrows a minute. A ten minute bombardment would loose 5000 X 10 X 17 arrows - that's a quarter of a million arrows !

 

Anyone any idea of how many arrows an archer carried ?

 

Then there is the production of arrows

 

Shafts of ash , feathers from geese , tips made by blacksmiths, Feathers attached by fletchers, tips attached by arrowsmiths. That is a lot of people involved, to say nothing of collection, storage and transportation. A huge labour-intensive industry. No wonder it was considered very important for archers to collect re-usable arrows after a battle.

 

Some idea of the numbers of people involved is reflected in how common the surname Fletcher is compared with Bowyer and Arrowsmith (or even Archer)

Like today the support for soldiers is vastly higher than front line troops ,i presume theres wagons and small boys running back and forth with bundles

Believe NOTHING anyones says or writes unless you witness it yourself and even then your eyes can deceive you

None of this "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" crap it just means i have at least two enemies!

 

There is only one opinion i listen to ,its mine and its ALWAYS right even when its wrong

 

Its far easier to curse the darkness than light one candle

 

Mathew 4:19

Grangers law : anything i say will  turn out the opposite or not happen at all!

Life insurance? you wont enjoy a penny!

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." Thomas Jefferson

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It is known that entire villages became used as "production facilities" for arrows. Providing work forces and materials involving the entire populace.

The army itself would be supported by a supply train probably equal in size to itself. Built from peasants, tradesmen and other such people to support the army.

I'm not sure of the english longbowman, but I know Norwegian levy law dictated an archer could carry up to 24 arrows.

Welsh and english archers (15th century) were expected to shoot "at least" 10 aimed shots per minute and I believe we do know that at Agincourt an archer was provided 60-90 arrows for the battle.

The average amount of arrows at Agincourt was supposedly 1000 a second!!

And of course we hear tales of the sky turning black with arrows! I imagine a thousand arrows a second is something you wouldn't wish to anywhere underneath!!

 

If you have access to a bow and arrows, even a modern recurve, try ten shots a minute! It's actually bloody hard.

But we are not talking about just ten shots, we are talking at least ten! And all aimed!

So give yourself a 25 yard target and then go at it ten shots a minute. Then do that for 60 arrows!

It's an immense task and hugely demanding!

The chap in the video is amazing for sure; but that's quick action, shoot and stop! The longbowman in battle was another realm entirely! Consistently drawing and releasing with accuracy.

I practice quite often with my compound...but an hour of shooting and I know about it! That's relaxed, 6 shots, walk to target, pluck the arrows and wander back, fiddle a bit, shoot again...etc etc

Re enactor a and modern archer truly know very very little of the skill involved of the longbowman!

Edited by kirisute
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