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#21 paintfly

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Posted 15 October 2006 - 10:11 PM

My neoprene waders (mini skirt - he he) is made of closed cell neoprene, (known for its insulating properties) and used in both wet and dry (fry) suits.


Great, very comprehensive info. I don't know anything about this subject and I am still trying to make decision on what I will be wearing this winter (& why I was keen for this thread not to descend into a slanging match) I would be happy to consider a (hopefully)less expensive alternative to dry suits or the Palm Sidewinder Bib that fits my Palm Aleutian cag (both just short of £200) if they are as good/safe as you claim. But I'm still a bit unclear about the nature of neoprene. Am I right in thinking there is more than one type i.e one that lets water in (wet suits) and one that doesn't (waders)?

Do you have any recommendations/links to UK wader manufacturers?

#22 paintfly

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 09:58 AM

[quote name='CaptainsOrgan' date='Oct 16 2006, 05:47 AM' post='682172']

Cheers, the Snowbee kit looks the biz. Sorry to labour the point, but can you confirm that the closed cell/compressed neoprene keeps you 100% dry? I noticed the Snowbee website mentions something about where neoprene is compressed i.e heels, as having been a potential source of leaks. So, in a kayaking context, where you're sitting on a fairly hard surface, for long periods of time, I'm wondering about the wet arse scenario, which I don't seem to be able to avoid, no matter what I wear (goretex wet weather cycling trousers under paddle pants). Although, some of the problem is undoubtedly due to sweating, which the waders+ proper wicking base layers sounds like they would help with.

#23 OKreally

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 11:09 AM

I don't wish to contradict a generally well researched & comprehensive reply but I have to correct one of the statements below - namely that neoprene is not waterproof & acts like a sponge.

I worked for 8 years at Gul selling both dry & all forms of wet suits & can assure you that neoprene is waterproof - the only variable is the form of stitching used. Blind stitching - as used in waders, 'steamer' winter & 3 season suits ensures that the only water that comes in comes through zips (if not dry zips), seepage past seals or up from ankles. The stitching does not penetrate right through the neoprene & the seams are glued. I have worn a 5mm/3mm steamer windsurfing all day THAT FITTED WELL & had 90% of the neoprene dry (a tad sweaty, perhaps!) when I peeled it off. The other forms of stitching are flatlock, mauser & overlock with some variations on these & are designed to let in water when air & water temperature are such that the body is capable of heating it between the insulative layer & works as described. Crushed neoprene is just that...largely for decorative & occasionally flexibility reasons.

All that being said I'd use a one or 2 piece drysuit combination for really cold water. The down side being that a wetsuit warms beautifully when p**** in..the drysuit is just disgusting!!

Regards

Andrew
Johnson Outdoors


Wet Suits

There is a common misperception about how wet suits work which is that the water between your skin and the suit actually insulates you. This is not the case. The water trapped between the suit and the skin becomes heated and, provided the water stays trapped, the neoprene will insulate you .As the bubbles inside the neoprene are not interconnected, that means water can flow through it like it can in an “open cell” material such as a sponge; There is one basic rule of physics and one golden rule of practicalities in choosing a wetsuit.

The physics is simple – the thicker the neoprene, the warmer you will be. A 7mm wet suit will provide more insulation than a 3mm wet suit. What comes with the physics is a bit of common sense which surprisingly many people tend to forget. The more neoprene you wear, the more you will float. The more you will float, the more lead you need to make you sink.

waders

Waders are generally made of closed cell neoprene,(also known as crushed neoprene). Because closed cell neoprene contains thousands of tiny insulating air bubbles, it is light in weight and flexible while providing excellent thermal Insulation and Boyancy.

Under my waders I wear a shark Skin - Polartech suit, they are like a body suit. These actually have thermal protection because they are like a fleece. Many divers find these the ideal extra warmth when worn under wet suits. Be aware, however, that they are not cheap – a new polartech suit will cost around 300 quid.

I normally wear my wading boots over my stocking foot waders - again here I use Korkers with felt soles - there are times when I want to get off the yak and wade on banks / gravel bars and this is when I need the protection of the boots. Neoprene booties with a hard sole will work just as well though.

Local UK suppliers

I would recommend these guys as their kit is good, and well priced.

http://www.snowbee.co.uk/wading.htm



#24 richardlawrence

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 12:03 PM

Just to add to the above points, wet suits are indeed warmer if the neoprene is thicker. They are near useless in the water however if they don't fit well. A well fitting thinner suit will be warmer than a thick suit that is too big.

The main down side to wearing a full wet suit is the 'chaffing' Even with a rash vest this can become uncomfortable after a whole day in rubber.

#25 YakDiver

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 12:41 PM

whole day in rubber

to some people that could be heaven
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I left my shoes and socks there
I wonder if they're dry?

#26 s2vto

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 01:11 PM

Having worn neoprene waders from shore fishing and catching fish in my uncles pond there is no way i would wear on the kayak. I have also been in the river and they have filled up with water which was not good :wallbash:

I wore a long john wetsuit in the kayak at first but it was uncomfortable and did not keep me warm, but would be fine in the summer months.

I now have a breathable typhoon drysuit with latex seals which i wore for the first time on the weekend and i was snug inside it. IT kept me dry and warm and i did not sweat inside eventhough i wore a body fleece and a hoody. The only problem was getting used to the latex around my neck.

I also have a dry top (cag) but was not too impressed with it. Would be fine as a top in the summer though.

That is my experience, so i would suggest a drysuit for the winter months :thumbs:
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#27 doshkadog

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 01:19 PM

I noticed on the weekend that the HellyHansen shop in the Mcarthur glen shopping mal has dry suits reduced to £199.00 in a few sizes HH not bAD! :schmoll:

Edited by doshkadog, 16 October 2006 - 01:19 PM.

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#28 richi

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 05:05 PM

Having worn neoprene waders from shore fishing and catching fish in my uncles pond there is no way i would wear on the kayak.

you're not the only one.I've asked loads of people today some boat fishermen some yakkers and guess what? they all came up with the same answer :thumbs:
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#29 Somerset in Jersey

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 05:25 PM

As i posted in a previous thread, go here and get the new RNLI booklet

http://www.rnliseasa...articleid=80463

it covers all the points above clearly and precisely.

If you dont beleive the RNLI then you are beyond redemtion

some screens from the disk they supply.


wets_suits.JPG drysuit.JPG

please get the booklet. Even the none UK people.

#30 SeaDooDavid

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 05:50 PM

I don't wish to contradict a generally well researched & comprehensive reply but I have to correct one of the statements below - namely that neoprene is not waterproof & acts like a sponge.

I worked for 8 years at Gul selling both dry & all forms of wet suits & can assure you that neoprene is waterproof - the only variable is the form of stitching used. Blind stitching - as used in waders, 'steamer' winter & 3 season suits ensures that the only water that comes in comes through zips (if not dry zips), seepage past seals or up from ankles. The stitching does not penetrate right through the neoprene & the seams are glued. I have worn a 5mm/3mm steamer windsurfing all day THAT FITTED WELL & had 90% of the neoprene dry (a tad sweaty, perhaps!) when I peeled it off. The other forms of stitching are flatlock, mauser & overlock with some variations on these & are designed to let in water when air & water temperature are such that the body is capable of heating it between the insulative layer & works as described. Crushed neoprene is just that...largely for decorative & occasionally flexibility reasons.

All that being said I'd use a one or 2 piece drysuit combination for really cold water. The down side being that a wetsuit warms beautifully when p**** in..the drysuit is just disgusting!!

Regards

Andrew
Johnson Outdoors



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