the clock is running out

[Jaffa]

I agree, the truth is normally in the middle of the extremes and if media hysteria gets results then fine. BUT my fear is politicians never make policy decisions based on facts or common sense, they make them to react to media hysteria and that we will some crazy policies that will benefit no one, especially the fish.

 

loved this bit

 

"The language of fear and terror operates as an ever-weakening vehicle for effective communication or inducement for behavioural change.

 

The language of politicians can be as strong as that of campaigners

This has been seen in other areas of public health risk. Empirical work in relation to climate change communication and public perception shows that it operates here too.

 

Framing climate change as an issue which evokes fear and personal stress becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. By "sexing it up" we exacerbate, through psychological amplifiers, the very risks we are trying to ward off. "

 

and thought of all the west coast scallop dredgers heading east because their grounds were closed due to insane "cover me back" levels that the new Food standards agency brought in following the BSE turmoil.

 

(The FSA agency stance also lets the anti salmon farm groups play merry hell with the "toxic algae blooms". , even though most of what they say is nonsense. )

 

The closure of the Shetland sandeel fishery due to media pressure. The science showed the fishery had nothing to do with the collapse of those stocks and that there might be something more going on but it sells no papers. What it did do is switch the Shetlanders fishing effort. Switched it to where and what?

 

The hysteria headlines the RSA reps deal in atm is imho totally counterproductive.

[steve good]

Counterproductive? Ever since RSA started dealing in 'hysteria headlines' I have seen nothing but improvement for RSA compared to what RSA could achive say some five years ago. Seems very productive to me. What are the 'counters'?

 

The funny thing is that often the RSA 'hysteria headlines' I have seen are nothing more than quotes from people who should know what they are talking about, like Commissioner Borg (and he is put on this earth to protect commercial fishing not angling):

 

http://europa.eu.int:80/rapid/pressRelease...;guiLanguage=en

 

'Most European fish stocks are now overfished – about 81% of known resources. According to scientists, current rates of overfishing on these stocks vary on average from two to five times the level that would provide the highest catch. This overfishing has led to lower catches, lower incomes for fishermen, low profitability in many fisheries, and high catches of young fish - many of which are discarded (thrown back dead in the sea).'

 

Hi fishingsfine

 

QUOTE/ many of which are discarded (thrown back dead in the sea).'

 

Thats just whats going to happen to the bass next year thanks to the anglers and the goverment the outcome of thats going to happen will not be the commercials fishermen fault

 

steve

[Steve Coppolo]

Hi fishingsfine

 

QUOTE/ many of which are discarded (thrown back dead in the sea).'

 

Thats just whats going to happen to the bass next year thanks to the anglers and the goverment the outcome of thats going to happen will not be the commercials fishermen fault

 

steve

 

Hi Steve

How does that one work then? Surely if the commercial fishermen use the right size nets, then they won't get many discards? After all, we're always being told how selective gill nets are.

[barry luxton]

Hi fishingsfine

 

QUOTE/ many of which are discarded (thrown back dead in the sea).'

 

Thats just whats going to happen to the bass next year thanks to the anglers and the goverment the outcome of thats going to happen will not be the commercials fishermen fault

 

steve

 

 

I do not understand how you can blame others for your own actions. If commercially there is a lot of discards due to undersize then it would be prudent to address the problem to ensure the discard is kept to a minimum whatever the fish size limit. There is no point in killing the future stocks, a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face, whats the point? There has been a full consultation regarding the mls and this is the outcome whatever side of the fence you are from, many still wish the size is compatible with the fish having a chance to breed first before reaching the table, many want the mls put back. You have to work with what you've got surely.

 

regards barry

[wurzel]

Hi Steve

How does that one work then? Surely if the commercial fishermen use the right size nets, then they won't get many discards? After all, we're always being told how selective gill nets are.

 

 

Hello Steve

 

It's not a problem for the gill nets,although there will be some discards in the 90mm sole fishery, the problem will be where you have a mixed sole and bass trawl fishery useing 80mm cod ends.

Steve G has a valid point for his area.

[Steve Coppolo]

Hello Steve

 

It's not a problem for the gill nets,although there will be some discards in the 90mm sole fishery, the problem will be where you have a mixed sole and bass trawl fishery useing 80mm cod ends.

Steve G has a valid point for his area.

 

Hello Peter

 

Is there such a thing as a mixed sole/bass trawl fishery? Steve G told everyone on this forum a few weeks ago that he caught bass commercially in gill nets and on rod and line. If there is a mixed trawl fishery, is it right that the MLS for any fish is set to suit the size of the mesh used and not at what would make the fishery more sustainable? Why don't they just stop the mixed fishery if it is going to cause that many discards? I'm sure I read that the problem with discards from trawlers would be addressed by only allowing a certain percentage of bass bycatch for sole fishermen. I'm sure the fishermen could avoid huge amounts of discards if they wanted to, maybe they just want to prove a point?

[The doctor]

I'm sure the fishermen could avoid huge amounts of discards if they wanted to, maybe they just want to prove a point?

 

 

Steve Weathergood is sadly very correct in his assumption, although somewhat misguided in his zeal to point it out. The childish attempts to wind anglers up over bass discards are............... well just childish and not really worth getting wound up over.

 

However, he, and others of his ilk appear to believe that once they begin to show the general public the amount of dead bass they are discarding because DEFRA have increased the MLS and created an unlevel playing field, that Joe Public will side with them and force the minister to lower the bass MLS back to 36cm. I'm sure that *********, ** ******** and the rest of the pro lobby from ****** will applaud such a move pointing out that such waste is being destructive to the fishing industry. Time will tell. However, I am not so sure that they aren't opening up an even bigger can of worms, a little bird tells me that certain NGO's are almost hoping that the SW and S coast fishing industry does take this line as it will be an opportunity to push through technical measures via increased mesh sizes. This is the position that the NGO's will take stating that the industry 'does not give a damn about conservation, only profits', their willingness to be destructive in order to prove a point shows that clearly.

 

The general public will be asked to consider (in the light of the recent Science report) what course of action best suits the fish and ecology in the waters along the south coast, A) mass discarding of adolescent fish in order to reduce the minimum landing size below that at which the species can reproduce, or widespread compulsory increases in trawl mesh sizes with a retention of the present MLS.

 

From the general publics view point its not rocket science, as for Steve Weathergood, leave him to it, he's loading his gun, in preparation to blow his own toes off.

[Steve Coppolo]

Steve Weathergood is sadly very correct in his assumption, although somewhat misguided in his zeal to point it out. The childish attempts to wind anglers up over bass discards are............... well just childish and not really worth getting wound up over.

 

However, he, and others of his ilk appear to believe that once they begin to show the general public the amount of dead bass they are discarding because DEFRA have increased the MLS and created an unlevel playing field, that Joe Public will side with them and force the minister to lower the bass MLS back to 36cm. I'm sure that *********, ** ******** and the rest of the pro lobby from ****** will applaud such a move pointing out that such waste is being destructive to the fishing industry. Time will tell. However, I am not so sure that they aren't opening up an even bigger can of worms, a little bird tells me that certain NGO's are almost hoping that the SW and S coast fishing industry does take this line as it will be an opportunity to push through technical measures via increased mesh sizes. This is the position that the NGO's will take stating that the industry 'does not give a damn about conservation, only profits', their willingness to be destructive in order to prove a point shows that clearly.

 

The general public will be asked to consider (in the light of the recent Science report) what course of action best suits the fish and ecology in the waters along the south coast, A) mass discarding of adolescent fish in order to reduce the minimum landing size below that at which the species can reproduce, or widespread compulsory increases in trawl mesh sizes with a retention of the present MLS.

 

From the general publics view point its not rocket science, as for Steve Weathergood, leave him to it, he's loading his gun, in preparation to blow his own toes off.

 

I can't be 100% sure, but I seem to remember being told that different trawl rigs are better at catching certain species than others. I also seem to remember being told that it isn't difficult to avoid catching certain species if you want to target another, different tow speeds and different ground seem to ring a bell.

 

I accept that there will be some discards, there are already, but I don't believe that the fishermen have no control over them whatsoever and that they will suddenly increase drastically because the MLS has been raised to 40cm. How many under 36cm bass were caught and discarded previously in the 80mm cod end?

[wurzel]

Hello Peter

 

Is there such a thing as a mixed sole/bass trawl fishery? Steve G told everyone on this forum a few weeks ago that he caught bass commercially in gill nets and on rod and line. If there is a mixed trawl fishery, is it right that the MLS for any fish is set to suit the size of the mesh used and not at what would make the fishery more sustainable? Why don't they just stop the mixed fishery if it is going to cause that many discards? I'm sure I read that the problem with discards from trawlers would be addressed by only allowing a certain percentage of bass bycatch for sole fishermen. I'm sure the fishermen could avoid huge amounts of discards if they wanted to, maybe they just want to prove a point?

 

Hello Steve, Doc

 

I don't think there will be huge amounts of discards , bass are tough little critteres and a lot will survive.