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Now Where have I Read That Before?


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#31 Leon Roskilly

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 09:04 AM

Is cod not a significant enough species to warrant a mention of its own ?


SACN responded to a recent DEFRA request to input into their response to the EU Cod Recovery Plan.

see: http://www.sacn.org....N-Responds.html

Edited by Leon Roskilly, 17 November 2006 - 09:12 AM.

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#32 Ian Burrett

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 10:08 AM

Judging by the lengths of your's and Leon's responses I guess I touched a nerve ? Fact is still there is lots of mention of many species on the websites of the fishing rep bodies and what they support and what they oppose. There is not so much information on cod - perhaps its wrong for me to make assumptions but If I was not a member of this forum and wanted to find out your stance on Cod where would I locate this information ?.

Is cod not a significant enough species to warrant a mention of its own ?

Like I say Time will tell on this one. I might sound paranoid but we will see.


Hi Glen
The reason why Cod probably hasn't been mentioned in RSA talks with Defras because no one had got of their axxx, and made things happen.

The Bass men were accussed of being elitist but they got organised and lobbied Defra. The National Mullet club are doing the same now. SOS are in dialogue with Defra on various Elasmobranch topics. The point I am making is, each species has had enthusiasts that have got involved and made things happen. This takes a serious ammount of time and effort by focused individuals.

Get A Cod group together, come up with an RSA management plan. Show defra how much is spent on Cod fishing throughout the UK, How many anglers are invplved. It must be huge sums.

Once you are organised then the NFSA, SACN etc. will get behind your plan and support it. Thats the way it happens. The relatively few people involved with RSA politics haven't got time to chase Defra on the other 100 species that swim round the UK.

Get organised Glen because Defra are going to have to act on yesterdays story. I personally believe those figures will be quoted for a long time to come.
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#33 glennk

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 12:46 PM

Thanks Ian,

Maybe we need something concrete to fight against before we can get people to fight with us. I would love to get something started but cant do it on my own - just don't have the knowledge or the ability. Not sure who else would want to come in on anything with us. If local anglers wont even make a complaint to Defra about the mismanagement of the local herring spawn fishery for fear of upsetting the commercials they share a pint with even though it is ****ing up their living then what chance have I got of getting anyone to do anything at all ?

We will see what happens In time Ian, I'm with you on this one those figures from yesterday will be quoted a lot and it wont be long before cod anglers bag limits is a real issue not for any sound conservational reason but because the commercials want to settle a few scores with anglers..

Edited by glennk, 17 November 2006 - 12:49 PM.


#34 The doctor

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 01:28 PM

If local anglers wont even make a complaint to Defra about the mismanagement of the local herring spawn fishery for fear of upsetting the commercials they share a pint with even though it is ****ing up their living then what chance have I got of getting anyone to do anything at all ?


It just occurred to me Glenn. do you remember a certain meeting in Scarborough in May I think it was.

Both you and Paul were there, along with DEFRA, MFA & NESFC etc. Do you remember someone prompting either of you to ask DEFRA about bag limits on Cod? Do you remember who actually asked the question in the end because nobody else would? Do you remember the response from DEFRA? Do you remember who probably asked most of the questions and made most of the comment during the evening?

Not trying to score points Glenn, simply trying to make the point that if you go to meetings simply turning up is not enough, you have to participate, this is what your unelected representatives do, they ask the questions and push for the answers whilst making their own sectors concerns clear.

I will be contacting the MFA and DEFRA shortly to try and organise the next meeting (which they committed to 6 months from the initial meeting). Perhaps you could put together a presentation on the concerns of Whitby and NE anglers in general have regarding the intensive harvesting of cod during the herring spawning period.

#35 glennk

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 01:50 PM

Nigel,

If I remember rightly I couldn't get a word in edgeways :)

Through the gaps I did ask several questions. If we had some minutes perhaps I could prove that. Can we have the next meeting minuted ?

In response to a comment about the recent success of fisheries enforcement I asked the question about what was considered a success - and asked how a situation where people have committed a crime and walk away from court having still made a profit from their illegal activities is considered a success.

In fact I probably asked more questions than most - although not more than you :)

I never raised the questions of bag limits and I do remember you did and I do remember the ladies response. Bag Limits for cod are not Currently on our agenda. But as you know with these types Nigel - what is true as they speak may not have been true the day before or half an hour into the future. Call me paranoid but I see it coming.

Now then with regards to the next meeting. I am not a confident public speaker so will not present to the group - Sorry. I would be prepared to prepare something on paper and give it to the people to have a read of. Perhaps big cod would like to do a presentation ?

Edited by glennk, 18 November 2006 - 09:38 AM.


#36 seaside

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 02:31 PM

Thanks Ian,

Maybe we need something concrete to fight against before we can get people to fight with us. I would love to get something started but cant do it on my own - just don't have the knowledge or the ability. Not sure who else would want to come in on anything with us. If local anglers wont even make a complaint to Defra about the mismanagement of the local herring spawn fishery for fear of upsetting the commercials they share a pint with even though it is ****ing up their living then what chance have I got of getting anyone to do anything at all ?

We will see what happens In time Ian, I'm with you on this one those figures from yesterday will be quoted a lot and it wont be long before cod anglers bag limits is a real issue not for any sound conservational reason but because the commercials want to settle a few scores with anglers..

Glen - I really appreciate how you feel about getting started on your own, it does seem to be a real uphill task, but I think Ian has given you really good pointers.

Apologies if I appear to be trying to teach you to suck eggs, but if you set out basically what you want to achieve, post it for input / ask for help , see what response you get, ( ignore the as**oles ) , be flexible and revise your approach if necessary and then the hard bit ...... drive it forward.

I agree with you, all that bragging has really backfired and it will form the basis of many 'articles' aimed at hiding the real facts of bycatch, black landings, throwaways etc by passing the blame onto RSA and although it has as much credibility as the mad professor from Iceland - I'm sure it will be continually referred to.

There are plenty willing to help as I've found when posting on behalf of the SFSA, go for it !!

#37 Ian Burrett

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 03:37 PM

Thanks Ian,

Maybe we need something concrete to fight against before we can get people to fight with us. I would love to get something started but cant do it on my own - just don't have the knowledge or the ability. Not sure who else would want to come in on anything with us. If local anglers wont even make a complaint to Defra about the mismanagement of the local herring spawn fishery for fear of upsetting the commercials they share a pint with even though it is ****ing up their living then what chance have I got of getting anyone to do anything at all ?

We will see what happens In time Ian, I'm with you on this one those figures from yesterday will be quoted a lot and it wont be long before cod anglers bag limits is a real issue not for any sound conservational reason but because the commercials want to settle a few scores with anglers..


Hi Glen

You are thinking Whitby but Cod are fished for from the South to the North and I am guessing will be RSA's most targeted fish.

The economic worth of cod anglers has to be measured in tens if not hundreds of millions of pounds and the commercial figures are suprisingly small.

Have you seen this quote below that seaside posted elsewhere recently?

Bertie Armstrong, the Chief Exec of the commercial SSF said the other day that he was frustrated by the obsessive interest in cod as it was diverting attention away from the state of other important stocks.
However, for years the commercials have fought their corner based on the emotional issue of COD, but in reality only around 5% of the cod consumed in the UK comes from UK waters. In 2005, the Scottish catch was 7.3 tonnes worth approx £13m, and was around 4 per cent of the fishing industry as a whole.

He also said the industry was working enthusiastically to make fishing more selective and reduce by-catch and discards.


Defra put the total UK cod landings at £7.8 million for 2005 most of which is Scottish landings
http://www.mfa.gov.u...sh05-Tab3-3.xls



If RSA value is 100 million (Just a wild guess) against the English commercial Cod landings of £2million then you have a hell of a good starting point.

Edited by Ian Burrett, 17 November 2006 - 04:03 PM.

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#38 stavey

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 03:55 PM

Thanks Ian,

Maybe we need something concrete to fight against before we can get people to fight with us. I would love to get something started but cant do it on my own - just don't have the knowledge or the ability. Not sure who else would want to come in on anything with us. If local anglers wont even make a complaint to Defra about the mismanagement of the local herring spawn fishery for fear of upsetting the commercials they share a pint with even though it is ****ing up their living then what chance have I got of getting anyone to do anything at all ?


Hi glen, you already got started a while back with your petition, you dont need the support of a few old stuck in the mud local bury their heads in the sand folk, leave them to get on with what ever? remind me how many it was that signed that petition? it was in its "hundreds" i know that, and in only a few days, you see glen you already have the support BIG TIME imo mate, they are waiting on you now.

Oh you also started a website did you not FCS was'nt it? i think you have got more than enough ammo to make your point for the spawny fishery now dig that petition back out and get cracking and while your at it make another one on no bag limits for cod in your area if your sure that is what the majority of the anglers want around their? one more thing ok you say your not good on public speaking, get some one else to do it for you like you have suggested, like i have said before my offer to help out from down in the dumps sussex (regards shore sea fishing qaulity) is always open glen for the shear fact that i would not like to see what has happened down here repeated elsewhere if i can help it mate, cheers................
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#39 JB

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 04:24 PM

Do you see the article in Fishing News likely to start a move to try and manage catch levels in the charter boat fishery in general, or do you feel the article was too specific and it will be 15 minute wonder that will blow over.

Hello Seaside,
Personally, I donít think it is any more damaging than many other things that have been written on this and many other angling forums. But it proves one thing, that angling forums are being monitored by commercial fishermen.

Two years ago, I did not know that angling forums existed. However, when it was brought to my attention that a campaign was being orchestrated to try and damage my angling business, I joined this forum to try and moderate things. Since then I have joined two more forums for the same reason. (It seems for the time being the perpetrators of this vendetta are mainly concentrating on other things. Hopefully things will stay that way.)

No-one likes being called names, or to have lies told about them, or to have their livelihood threatened.

In the same way, certain other Whitby businessmen - namely, commercial fishermen - have been accused of dastardly things on this forum, by people who (to put it in the nicest possible way) are, in the main, apparently ill-informed. Names have been mentioned, and this has created a lot of bad feeling in Whitby. This being the case, I feel sure that these certain apparently-wrongly-accused commercial fishermen are now monitoring this forum. These certain people are financially successful and very well-versed in fishing politics. Therefore, the aforementioned apparently-ill-informed people stating on an open forum the precise thing that they DONíT WANT to happen doesnít seem like a good idea to me.

Personally, I would be all in favour of a fence-mending process with the commercial fishermen. But then, I have never believed British commercial fishermen to be the enemy of anglers. It seems to me that the real enemy is now sitting back and hoping to see a good scrap between commercials and RSA.

JB
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#40 glennk

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 04:45 PM

Hi Stavey,

Maybe I was wrong about the north east anglers opposing bag limits.

Even anglers in my own area are calling for bag limits on the charter fleet

http://www.whitbysea...fishingnews.php

Probably would be a good time to get out of the industry - sell up and move to the other side of the world.

Edited by glennk, 17 November 2006 - 04:55 PM.