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Petition the PM, on-line in 2 mins, to save the fish stocks


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#21 fishyrob

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 11:43 AM

But this man works to the rules that his scientifically advised government have told him he can fish and makes a good living in an industry and a lifestyle that his son is also taking part in and hopefully his grandchildren after that.


Abnsolutely. But this is the whole point of the petition. The government are not listening to their scientists advice, otherwise we would be currently enjoying NTZ's in the North sea right now, as recommended by the scientists, wouldnt we...? The BBC report I linked to somewhere up above is from 2004. In two years, the scientists have still been ignored. With each year of inactivity, the stocks plunge stil lower.Going to have to do another comparison now. Again when I was a lad, if you caught a bass, regardless of size, it was an event to get excited about. Now, you can wlk across the schoolies in some of the Essex estuaries (I have had 30 bass and two carp in a single session on one paticular underated Essex estuary) Why is this? Could it be that the nursery areas were established? Or is it just a coincidence? I would say that it is the former, although even here not all commercials observe the nursery laws, as anybody who has fished or taken a boat trip through the langstone harbour entrance will testify. And all that is being asked for here is the same, areas where the cod can spawn and perhaps increase. Every year up the East coast in the spring there is a good run of undersized codling. Every year I see angling writers writing that this bodes well for the future. And every following Autumn I see the same writers grumbling about the poor state of the cod fishing. So, what happens to these codling? Cant imagine the seals eat them all. The anglers definately dont catch them all. Could it be that they get hammered, either directly or as by (dead) catch, by commercial fisherman? If you ever come to Brighton, have a look in the Brighton Angler (Tackle shop) and you can see truly staggering pictures of enormous cod caught from Dungeness beach. Pictures of thirty cod to a group of three anglers, many of thm being big doubles, all from the late sixties and early seventies. Now do a search for cod catches on Dungeness. Do you see anybody catching ten big cod from the beach anymore? To say that fish stocks are in good health, and that Wurzels grandson will inheri a cod fishery that he can actually make a living out of, is pure fantasy. You dont need a scientist, you just need to go fishing to see that stocks of many fish are a shadow of their former self. So, the evidence isnt just from scientists, it is from every day observation. How many of you commercial boys are fishing such healthy fish stocks that you are about to upgrade your Porsche to a Ferrari? Or is it a case of wondering if there will be enough in the nets to cover the mortgage this month? Am I the only person that can see if commercial fisherman wish to continue their trade, and ean money from it, they have to allow the fish stocks to recover. PLEASE dont get the idea that I am anti-commercials. The first job I ever applied for was on a trawler, but why are all the commercials ignoring the point. NO FISH = NO COMMERCIAL FISHING. Yes or no? All you commercial boys should be signing the petition, not fighting it, otherwise you will be committing yourselfs to permanent bans regardless. In thirty years the cod stocks have been fished to dangerousley low levels. Commercial fisherman have been around since the beggining of mankind. Dont let your fear of change and regulation deny future generations this opportunity.
http://petitions.pm..../Seafishstocks/ IF YOU WANT TO SAVE OUR FISH STOCKS

#22 stavey

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 11:56 AM

Really. Or am I the sort of person that listens to scientific advice. Did you not follow the story of the Canadian cod fishery, where just before total collapse the fishing for cod actually saw bigger returns in the last two years, but this wasnt because their were more fish, but because the few fish that were left were shoaling tightly and therefore once they were located good catches could be made. Now, after a complete ban for the last 14 years or so, there are still no fish because the stock level wasnt able to recover, as the stock had been fished to un-recoverable levels. ICES are suggesting that is happening here. But you carry on campaigning for complete anihilation, Wurzel. I'm guessing you dont have children that you want to follow in you footsteps. Kind of ironic, though, you posting on a Conservation and politics forum. Why do you think you are right, and that all the scientists are wrong? Why do you think that your knowledge of your local patch is the same everywhere? When I was a teenager, I fished on Canvey Island in Essex for cod, in November and December. And I caught cod. If I went fishing, I would EXPECT to catch at least three or four table fish EVERY TRIP. Now you cant do that. After half a dozen trips you migh be lucky enough to eek one out. That isnt listening to scientists, that is a direct comparison of the fishing now and twenty years ago. If there are loads of cod in the sea, and you are all knowledgable about them, could you please explain to me why this is the case? I really would like to know, because if it isnt a massive reduction in the fish available, I dont understand whats going on. If you cant explain, then perhaps you had better pipe down and go back to shadowing the catch reports for where you will be setting your nets.



Hi fishyrob

Wurzel is the least of our worries, he will tell you that the disapearance of the cod is down to a natural warming effect and now and during these periods the cod stocks are at the normal levels one would expect to see, he will also say the cod you and i use to catch are from a freak period of cooling in the sixties and are gone for good, until perhaps another freak cooling happening, to be fair to him there is some science to back this but where he and i dissagree! is that i believe that without the overfishing through the decades that definitely occured imo we would not have seen such a reduction rate as we have now of the cod stocks.

Now wurzel will probably rip into me for speaking for him? but i can take it he knows that :boxing: whether he or us rsa likes it we both have to work out whats best for both and it is going to take donkeys years ask leon, believe it or not i think wurzel is a good egg realy even though he is a commercial and i dont quite see him in the same light as i do some part timers in my neck of the woods, who deliberatelydrift their gill nets along the beach in front of you and others who are trying to catch a few dabs for tea or whatever, cheers.......

ps. am i back on your christmas card list now wurzel :lol:
I Fish For Sport Not Me Belly

#23 fishyrob

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 12:25 PM

Hi fishyrob

Wurzel is the least of our worries, he will tell you that the disapearance of the cod is down to a natural warming effect and now and during these periods the cod stocks are at the normal levels one would expect to see, he will also say the cod you and i use to catch are from a freak period of cooling in the sixties and are gone for good, until perhaps another freak cooling happening, to be fair to him there is some science to back this but where he and i dissagree! is that i believe that without the overfishing through the decades that definitely occured imo we would not have seen such a reduction rate as we have now of the cod stocks.

Now wurzel will probably rip into me for speaking for him? but i can take it he knows that :boxing: whether he or us rsa likes it we both have to work out whats best for both and it is going to take donkeys years ask leon, believe it or not i think wurzel is a good egg realy even though he is a commercial and i dont quite see him in the same light as i do some part timers in my neck of the woods, who deliberatelydrift their gill nets along the beach in front of you and others who are trying to catch a few dabs for tea or whatever, cheers.......

ps. am i back on your christmas card list now wurzel :lol:


Hi. I dont have anything against Wurzel for wanting to protect his livelihood (or for any other reason for that matter, after all, I dont know the guy), I just think that he isnt seeing the bigger picture. And there is very good scientific evidence to suggest that water temperatures do have an effect, so I take that point completely. But there is also FANTASTIC evidence to show that NTZ's work, incredibly well and quicker than even the scientists expected. Have a look here:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk...lundy_ban.shtml
The reason that I keep using BBC sources for this info is that they are considered to be unbiased, or if anything, biased towards commercial fisherman sustaining their livelihoods, which is correct and how it should be. Its just that to sustain a livelihood which is centered around catching fish, you need the FISH!!!!
http://petitions.pm..../Seafishstocks/ IF YOU WANT TO SAVE OUR FISH STOCKS

#24 glennk

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 12:32 PM

Climate change ?

So, even with the climate changes that have occurred taken into account, the North
Sea cod population is lower than it could be, and this is a result of fishing pressure. If
the fishing pressure was reduced, the North Sea, even under current climatic
conditions, could support a larger, sustainable cod fishery and a healthy cod stock.


Taken from here :

http://www.marlab.ac...20Fisheries.pdf

"It was conducted for the Scottish Fishermenís Federation, a commercial organisation for those that know nothing of them whose aim is to advance the interests of Scottish fishermen at national and international levels by lobbying government officials in Edinburgh, London and Brussels."

also worth reading here :

http://www.anglersne...showtopic=69692

#25 wurzel

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 01:00 PM

Really. Or am I the sort of person that listens to scientific advice. Did you not follow the story of the Canadian cod fishery, where just before total collapse the fishing for cod actually saw bigger returns in the last two years, but this wasnt because their were more fish, but because the few fish that were left were shoaling tightly and therefore once they were located good catches could be made. Now, after a complete ban for the last 14 years or so, there are still no fish because the stock level wasnt able to recover, as the stock had been fished to un-recoverable levels. ICES are suggesting that is happening here. But you carry on campaigning for complete anihilation, Wurzel. I'm guessing you dont have children that you want to follow in you footsteps. Kind of ironic, though, you posting on a Conservation and politics forum. Why do you think you are right, and that all the scientists are wrong? Why do you think that your knowledge of your local patch is the same everywhere? When I was a teenager, I fished on Canvey Island in Essex for cod, in November and December. And I caught cod. If I went fishing, I would EXPECT to catch at least three or four table fish EVERY TRIP. Now you cant do that. After half a dozen trips you migh be lucky enough to eek one out. That isnt listening to scientists, that is a direct comparison of the fishing now and twenty years ago. If there are loads of cod in the sea, and you are all knowledgable about them, could you please explain to me why this is the case? I really would like to know, because if it isnt a massive reduction in the fish available, I dont understand whats going on. If you cant explain, then perhaps you had better pipe down and go back to shadowing the catch reports for where you will be setting your nets.



I had to cool down before I replied, would have had the moderators on me case if not.


First . I donít need to look at any catch report by any wallies ( local name for RSA) to find where to set my nets.
You guessed wrong , I have one son who will be, is, a commercial fisherman, I donít see any reason, if he is allowed to, why he should not get a good living from the sea as I have and still do.
I have four other sons , so with five kids and a wife at home Iíve had to fish harder than most to survive.
Before you say any thing (you seem the type) I have never had any state benefits or hand outs.



Now you are banging on about cod stocks , be for you said fish stocks and that the sea was going to be empty, devoid of fish, so which is it ? Are we going to eliminate all fish from the sea or just all COD?

I have never claimed that there are plenty of COD off the Essex coast.
Although I imagine there are a hell of a lot more than you are aware of.

The scientists in Canada donít know why COD stocks have not recovered , where as with the North sea other stocks like Haddock are doing fine.

I have no doubt that 20 years ago you caught more COD from Canvey Island , there were plenty of COD about at that time, although in comparison to the rest of the southern north sea there were never heaps of cod at Canvey Island.
I bet you what ever you like there were none there 50 or 60 years ago, there were none at Ramsgate nor at Harwich. So why should there have been any at Canvey.
Please Check then explain why.

You donít understand whatís going on because you are not aware of your environment, you donít live it, eat it ,work in it, as commercial fishermen do.
I fish to live and live to fish.

#26 fishyrob

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 01:28 PM

I had to cool down before I replied, would have had the moderators on me case if not.
First . I donít need to look at any catch report by any wallies ( local name for RSA) to find where to set my nets.
You guessed wrong , I have one son who will be, is, a commercial fisherman, I donít see any reason, if he is allowed to, why he should not get a good living from the sea as I have and still do.
I have four other sons , so with five kids and a wife at home Iíve had to fish harder than most to survive.
Before you say any thing (you seem the type) I have never had any state benefits or hand outs.
Now you are banging on about cod stocks , be for you said fish stocks and that the sea was going to be empty, devoid of fish, so which is it ? Are we going to eliminate all fish from the sea or just all COD?

I have never claimed that there are plenty of COD off the Essex coast.
Although I imagine there are a hell of a lot more than you are aware of.

The scientists in Canada donít know why COD stocks have not recovered , where as with the North sea other stocks like Haddock are doing fine.

I have no doubt that 20 years ago you caught more COD from Canvey Island , there were plenty of COD about at that time, although in comparison to the rest of the southern north sea there were never heaps of cod at Canvey Island.
I bet you what ever you like there were none there 50 or 60 years ago, there were none at Ramsgate nor at Harwich. So why should there have been any at Canvey.
Please Check then explain why.

You donít understand whatís going on because you are not aware of your environment, you donít live it, eat it ,work in it, as commercial fishermen do.


Wurzel, take the chill pill. And please dont assume anything about me, as you dont know anything about me. I do live it, eat it and work in it. During the summer, I have two sources of income. One is the Cafes on the marina arms, where I battle against Asda's and Mcdonalds to creep out a living. And to subsidise my income, I hire out fishing tackle, and offer a guiding service to those that want it, and plenty do. 90% of my cafe customers and of course 100% of my guiding and tackle hire cutomers are anglers. But if there arent fish for them to catch they wont come any more, and I will be looking to work in Asda's or Mcdonalds myself. Like you, and now I am assuming, I would rather throw myself off beachy head than do that. Where do you get off thinking that commercial fisherman are the only ones entitled to make a living from the marine envionment?
And where do you get the info about there being no cod in the estuary sixty years ago. I am not disputing your claim, as sixty years ago the estuary was in a lot worse shape than now, due to industry rahter than overfishing, but I would like to understand where you get your info from, unless of course you are in your eighties and remember it well. Which would explain a lot....
http://petitions.pm..../Seafishstocks/ IF YOU WANT TO SAVE OUR FISH STOCKS

#27 glennk

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 01:43 PM

Think Im gonna sign just because I like your style. :lol: :lol:

Wurzel you must admit this lad is entertaining.

#28 fishyrob

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 01:49 PM

First . I donít need to look at any catch report by any wallies ( local name for RSA) to find where to set my nets.


To be honest, I dont think we need to discuss the issue anymore. If you think that RSA's are wallies, and you dont follow the catch reports to set your nets, why are you a member on this forum. The clue is in the title ANGLERSNET...... Perhaps you should look around for GILLNETTERSNET, or DOLPHINDROWNERS.COM
Your efforts might be appreciated more there. I posted a link to a petition to save our marine environment from the overfishing that is unquestionably happening. This was perhaps naive of me to post the link on a foum where commercial fisherman have the right to shout down ANGLERS viewpoints. But, reading back through this thread, you have given no evidence to back up your claims, so hopefully any ANGLERS reading this will see your viewpoint for what it is. OSTRICH MENTALITY. Substantiate your claims. Oh, but you cant, can you, because where is there any hard evidence that fish stocks around the British isles are healthy. You claim haddock is a healthy stock, but the people that know about the fish stocks elswhere than HARWICH (OMG!!!) suggest this isnt the case, as you will see if you look here:-
http://www.jncc.gov.uk/page-2529
In the same report, you will notice that the herring fishery, one of this countrys oldest and most traditional fisheries, has RECOVERD IN THE SHORT TERM after a BAN. So, now people can go and catch herring, commercially, and anglers are catching herring in unprecedented numbers from the shore in places where they were previously unheard of. Everybody happy, as a result of a short piece of pain. Oh, and it also says that the Saithe (coalfish) fishery is sustainable, although I suspect you dont get so many of these in Harwich. Maybe they will wander down and replace the COD which wont be there anymore. Could your awesome defence of commercial fishing using such renowned debating tools as THIN AIR and B*LLSH*T be anything to do with the fact that FLATFISH, WHITING and COD are outside, and I quote "Safe biological limits" be anything to do with your approach. What do you catch in your nets Wurzel?

Edited by fishyrob, 23 November 2006 - 05:40 PM.

http://petitions.pm..../Seafishstocks/ IF YOU WANT TO SAVE OUR FISH STOCKS

#29 wurzel

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 01:49 PM

Think Im gonna sign just because I like your style. :lol: :lol:

Wurzel you must admit this lad is entertaining.






Bloody hard work, I'm off to the river!
I fish to live and live to fish.

#30 glennk

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 01:52 PM

Dont get road rage on the way :bigemo_harabe_net-165:



:lol: :lol: :bigemo_harabe_net-163: :bigemo_harabe_net-163: