What do you want?

[Steve Coppolo]

Right, there's been a lot of talk about whether RSA's and commercial fishermen can work together, or whether they would be prepared to. Well here's a little game we can play that will give us the answer.

 

It's now the year 2008 and the government of the day want to sort out the problems with the fishery once and for all. They've invited RSA's and commercial fishermen to sit around the table to thrash out the future of the fishery. You, Anglers Net contributors, are those people and this forum is the table. Thrash it out. What do you want? And are the opposition prepared to give it up?

 

For the duration of this thread, (and this thread only!), I will do my best to remain totally neutral and will act as referee. I won't get involved in any of the arguments and I won't express any bias towards either side. I will ask a few questions and if I think anyone is being unfair, I'll point it out. Apart from that I won't get involved in things. If the urge gets too much to bear, I will ask someone else to take over as neutral referee before diving in.

 

I'll get the ball rolling by stating what most sea anglers want, and how they think it might be achieved.

 

Recreational sea anglers want to be able to catch more and bigger fish. They think this can be achieved by placing restrictions on certain commercial fishing practices, which they see as being responsible for the decline in their catches over the last 20 or 30 years.

 

Over to you!

[Ian Burrett]

The first thing i would do is kick the politicians out of the equation. The future of our seas, Education, Health service, Transport systems should be beyond party politics.

 

That would get rid of commercially biased politicians like Ross Finnie that rely on the commercial vote to stay in power.

 

This would change the emphasis to a more science based ethos.

 

All aspects of fishing should be analysed and if it proven to be unsustainable or environmentally damaging it should cease immediatley.

 

If commercial jobs have to go because their form of fishing is environmentally damaging like clam dredging then they should either change tactics or get out the Industry. The same rules should apply to RSA.

 

How can you have sustainable fishing when the needs of the fishermen are put before the needs of the fish?

 

Forget commercial and RSA preferences. Lets get the eco system in balance first

[Jaffa]

Hi Steve,

 

Recreational sea anglers want to be able to catch more and bigger fish. They think this can be achieved by placing restrictions on certain commercial fishing practices, which they see as being responsible for the decline in their catches over the last 20 or 30 years.

 

Well, some anglers may feel that way, perhaps even most, but who knows? Not me anyway...

 

From my NE Scotland/Shetland experience and perspective, I don't have any big axe to grind with the commercials. My attitude would have been different way back in the 80's, when we had several boats towing rockhoppers close inshore, but that's years ago now.

 

I've watched the local fleet being whittled down a shadow of what it once was, due IMHo to EU/government mismanagement. That has some economic impacts on my area and even more as you move further north.

 

I have not experienced the decline in catches you guys seem to have down south, and if the number of angling shops/busy shore marks and number of sea angling titles in newsagents is anything to go by, then shore angling at least, is thriving here.

 

The charter boat numbers may have reduced but increased legislation and overheads are a more likely cause imho.

 

Getting out the CFP would be the number one help to fish stocks IMHO, and if that is impossible, then commercials taking the lead in Brussels negotiations rather than ministers would be the way to go.

 

Relations between commercials and anglers are good up here ime, and I'd like them to stay as friendly. Having unelected RSA reps spinning complex issues for political gain down south can only harm me as i see it. I don't want to see disputes over access to harbours etc arising up here just because of the "hate" politics down south.

 

Anyway, i'd hope no Scottish RSA or Commercial reps would attend any meeting that was trying to find a "one size fits all" set of answers for the whole UK.

 

Scotland should go its own way.

[Ken Davison South Wales]

Right, there's been a lot of talk about whether RSA's and commercial fishermen can work together, or whether they would be prepared to. Well here's a little game we can play that will give us the answer.

 

It's now the year 2008 and the government of the day want to sort out the problems with the fishery once and for all. They've invited RSA's and commercial fishermen to sit around the table to thrash out the future of the fishery. You, Anglers Net contributors, are those people and this forum is the table. Thrash it out. What do you want? And are the opposition prepared to give it up?

 

For the duration of this thread, (and this thread only!), I will do my best to remain totally neutral and will act as referee. I won't get involved in any of the arguments and I won't express any bias towards either side. I will ask a few questions and if I think anyone is being unfair, I'll point it out. Apart from that I won't get involved in things. If the urge gets too much to bear, I will ask someone else to take over as neutral referee before diving in.

 

I'll get the ball rolling by stating what most sea anglers want, and how they think it might be achieved.

 

Recreational sea anglers want to be able to catch more and bigger fish. They think this can be achieved by placing restrictions on certain commercial fishing practices, which they see as being responsible for the decline in their catches over the last 20 or 30 years.

 

Over to you!

 

Hi Steve,

 

I would think that there would be a few more stakeholders sitting round that table.

 

It is a very hard one to debate because it covers such a wide field, if we start with someone like Wurzle I think from his post on here that he is conservation minded, BUT he has to protect his corner because if he sees the corporate sector being restricted he will quite rightly think his methods will be next on the list and I fully understand his position.

 

As a self-employed person relying on catching fish to make a living the thought of a total cod ban, 45mls for bass or any other restrictions whether thought up by us or any other stakeholder are bound to put his backup.

 

The aspect of Wurzle’s thinking which I don’t understand is his scepticism of current fish stock decline and the information supporting these declines. In a situation where the over whelming evidence is supporting a world wide crisis I would have thought that even if begrudgingly he and others would acknowledge that there is a down turn.

 

The other misconception held by commercials is the strength of RSAs knowledge, many of us have been angling since we were kids and are now in our sixties, we know what fishing was like and how it is today, in the same way as I know as a kids we used to get on our bikes and cycle out to Wareham from Poole along a country lane lined with hedges and virtually car free. Times have changed and all aspects of life have changed including fish stocks.

 

Back in those days there was not the gulf between commercials and RSAs; my first experience of boat fishing was on boats that during the week used to go out catching and on weekends took out charters. A good example was our twice yearly visit to Beer with our club Bournemouth & District Sea Angling where the boats where launched down the shingle on skids, we were all good friends then each appreciating each others objectives.

 

Today we have fully trained charter skippers with craft as well appointed as a commercial operation for finding marks and fish and the two facets have become divided.

 

I think a lot of commercials see RSAs as the enemy but as stated on the other thread we are the least of their problems.

 

So with such a misty situation the major problem is knowing exactly where to start around that table. The debate covers everything from cockling and bait digging to open ocean trawling and deep sea charters with literally thousands of items in between.

 

So we need an agenda to sort it item by item, now who’s up for that apart from politicians?

Edited November 26, 2006 by Ken Davison South Wales

[steve good]

Hi Steve,

Well, some anglers may feel that way, perhaps even most, but who knows? Not me anyway...

 

From my NE Scotland/Shetland experience and perspective, I don't have any big axe to grind with the commercials. My attitude would have been different way back in the 80's, when we had several boats towing rockhoppers close inshore, but that's years ago now.

 

I've watched the local fleet being whittled down a shadow of what it once was, due IMHo to EU/government mismanagement. That has some economic impacts on my area and even more as you move further north.

 

I have not experienced the decline in catches you guys seem to have down south, and if the number of angling shops/busy shore marks and number of sea angling titles in newsagents is anything to go by, then shore angling at least, is thriving here.

 

The charter boat numbers may have reduced but increased legislation and overheads are a more likely cause imho.

 

Getting out the CFP would be the number one help to fish stocks IMHO, and if that is impossible, then commercials taking the lead in Brussels negotiations rather than ministers would be the way to go.

 

Relations between commercials and anglers are good up here ime, and I'd like them to stay as friendly. Having unelected RSA reps spinning complex issues for political gain down south can only harm me as i see it. I don't want to see disputes over access to harbours etc arising up here just because of the "hate" politics down south.

 

Anyway, i'd hope no Scottish RSA or Commercial reps would attend any meeting that was trying to find a "one size fits all" set of answers for the whole UK.

 

Scotland should go its own way.

 

Hi Jaffa

 

LOL LOL Your post sounds like I am alright Jack, quick, pull up the bloody ladder lol lol

 

Regards Steve

[Andrew Syvret]

Scotland should go its own way.

 

Pair teams included?

 

[Trubshaw]

As far as I am concerned anything that can bring together Commercials and RSA onto the same platform, with a common strategy that can deliver a body-blow to this or any other government for that matter to force them to take all measures needed, painful or otherwise for all concerned, to preserve and enhance fish-stocks has to be a good thing.

 

From my experience and reading of the evidence, NTZs are a large part of the answer. Despite all the debate, I remain of that belief. It is however I admit a drastic step. It is also one that may not work; but from all the evidence I have seen, read and investigated it does; hence my petition.

 

From others experience, reading of the evidence, investigations etc, it does not work, however it appears that current solutions are not working either.

 

Other solutions have been proposed in the threads, even larger net mesh sizes, long lining, research into avoiding by-catches etc. I don't disagree with these solutions being implemented as well. The problem we face is that we have no time left for experiments on scales that simply are not providing answers quickly enough.

 

Question? Is there a shortage of fish stocks?

 

Answer; from my research and experience yes.

 

Question? What are we, as in the ones most affected by it, RSA, Commercial and tackle Suppliers going to do about it?

 

Answer; It must be more than is being done now.

 

PS Thank you Steve for proposing an outside of the debate thread.

Edited November 26, 2006 by Trubshaw

[barry luxton]

Right, there's been a lot of talk about whether RSA's and commercial fishermen can work together, or whether they would be prepared to. Well here's a little game we can play that will give us the answer.

 

It's now the year 2008 and the government of the day want to sort out the problems with the fishery once and for all. They've invited RSA's and commercial fishermen to sit around the table to thrash out the future of the fishery. You, Anglers Net contributors, are those people and this forum is the table. Thrash it out. What do you want? And are the opposition prepared to give it up?

 

For the duration of this thread, (and this thread only!), I will do my best to remain totally neutral and will act as referee. I won't get involved in any of the arguments and I won't express any bias towards either side. I will ask a few questions and if I think anyone is being unfair, I'll point it out. Apart from that I won't get involved in things. If the urge gets too much to bear, I will ask someone else to take over as neutral referee before diving in.

 

I'll get the ball rolling by stating what most sea anglers want, and how they think it might be achieved.

 

Recreational sea anglers want to be able to catch more and bigger fish. They think this can be achieved by placing restrictions on certain commercial fishing practices, which they see as being responsible for the decline in their catches over the last 20 or 30 years.

 

Over to you!

 

Steve my freind as someone who advocates no bull.......it i think you are on dangerous grounds where you ask hyporthetical questions, you might well get dumped on from a great hight and be left sitting in it. Seriously what a great thread i hope this one runs.

 

cheers barry

[frankthebass]

Adopt the American Stripped Bass fishery plan and just tweek it where needed to suit our bass. Maybe devlop managment plans for all pressured species.

[wurzel]

Right, there's been a lot of talk about whether RSA's and commercial fishermen can work together, or whether they would be prepared to. Well here's a little game we can play that will give us the answer.

 

It's now the year 2008 and the government of the day want to sort out the problems with the fishery once and for all. They've invited RSA's and commercial fishermen to sit around the table to thrash out the future of the fishery. You, Anglers Net contributors, are those people and this forum is the table. Thrash it out. What do you want? And are the opposition prepared to give it up?

 

For the duration of this thread, (and this thread only!), I will do my best to remain totally neutral and will act as referee. I won't get involved in any of the arguments and I won't express any bias towards either side. I will ask a few questions and if I think anyone is being unfair, I'll point it out. Apart from that I won't get involved in things. If the urge gets too much to bear, I will ask someone else to take over as neutral referee before diving in.

 

I'll get the ball rolling by stating what most sea anglers want, and how they think it might be achieved.

 

Recreational sea anglers want to be able to catch more and bigger fish. They think this can be achieved by placing restrictions on certain commercial fishing practices, which they see as being responsible for the decline in their catches over the last 20 or 30 years.

 

Over to you!

 

Quote

 

Over Fishing

 

This is what I have experienced, I suspect it has similarities with the big offshore fleets.

 

Say you have a sand bank, on this sand bank there is 100 stone of bass, they have moved in from the thousands of square miles of surrounding sea. Now if 10 boats turn up and net that bank every day for a week, that 100 stone is shared out by 10 boats, say it works out at 10 stone per boat for the week, not enough to make a living, that bank will not support 10 boats, it's being over fished. some thing has to give so some boats will go out of business others will find something else to do, leaving just 1 boat to carry on working that bank were there is plenty enough fish for it to make a good living.

 

I've brought this over from another thread.

 

I think the Uk fleet has now got to the "just one boat" phase, like JB says he is one boat with many wrecks to visit, just one or two wreck netters covering thousands of square miles, if there were 40 wreck netters plus 20 boats like the Chieftain , it would be different, but there ain't so what are you worried about ? the same applies to all aspects of fin fishing in the UK's commercial fleet.

Give it a chance, or do you want to eradicate that one boat as well?

 

 

 

 

Any way it's all irreverent because by 2008 you will be too busy catching the 2001 and 2 year class of bass that will be 3 to 4lb fish by then, and farther north they will be too busy catching this and last years better cod spawning fish to bother with sitting around any table having boring meetings.