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glennk

By glennk
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barry luxton Member

barry luxton

Posted
Posted (edited)
Hello barry

 

I think you are getting confused between dumping and discarding.

The mackerel boats would dump fish if they were the wrong grade, white fish boats discards are nothing in comparison.

 

I am not sure there is any discards these days, with 120 mm cod ends, nothing like it used to be any way.

 

Hi wurzel,

 

I'm not getting confused wurzel as i do not know anything about trawling. I would consider it sloopy to say the least if the mackeral boats continued doing this without attempting to adjust either their trawl or the nets. Is this common practice then wurzel? What about the net size before the cod end? Is it correct that the sea sometimes looks like a motorway full of dumped fish? Thanks for the info.

 

regards barry

Edited by barry luxton

Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.


New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.

Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.

Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.

new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.

Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are..

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barry luxton Member

barry luxton

Posted
Posted

Hi Glennk

 

Why just the UK fleet, EU Member states fish our waters more than us,

 

Discards, mmmm, is it not when the Uk Goverment do large scale de-commissining, impose unfair public sector quotas, bring in MPS, and when in serch of votes at election time introduce increase in mls for bass which creates discards or mmmmm let me see is it when the Goverment hand out as many aggregate dredgeing licences so as to get money for doing so without regard for commercials lost income, reward anglers for votes THANKFULLY recieved by giving them the MAGIC GOLDEN MILE ( sounds like something out of charlie and the choclate factory maybe dear BEN thinks that as well lol) and all the other things in the pipe line that what will reduce the commercials income.

 

It seems to me that UK commercials are being discarded at a greater rate than fish stocks, so when you say DISCARDS do you mean fish or fishermen?

 

Priceless Steve, wait till the others get on the band waggon as well, if the goverment did not discard commercial they would have to lump them all into areas around the uk that are not ntz. So that must mean that there will be no overcrowding in the areas that would be left. :headhurt:

 

Cheers barry

Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.


New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.

Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.

Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.

new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.

Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are..

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Jaffa Member

Jaffa

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Hi wurzel,

 

I'm not getting confused wurzel as i do not know anything about trawling. I would consider it sloopy to say the least if the mackeral boats continued doing this without attempting to adjust either thier trawl or the nets. Is this common practice then wurzel? What about the net size before the cod end? Is it correct that the sea sometimes looks like a motorway full of dumped fish? Thanks for the info.

 

regards barry

 

Hi Barry,

 

 

If i remember right the "motorway" reference was a Shetland Pelagic skipper voicing concern over the activities of the Dutch freezer fleet around Shetland . His allegation was that the freezer trawlers had grading machines ditching small mackerel. Nothing accidental about it; dumping seems a better way to describe it i guess.

 

 

The UK pelagic fleet have also "dumped" in the past; though i have no idea of the situation today. In their case ( again as best as i understand) they would slip the net and let go a catch if it was low value, and thet were on tight quotas. I'd imagine a lot of that died after being in the net. It was a side effect of quotas. Yet their "discards" (unwanted species or undersized target species) are very low indeed.

 

The Scots whitefish boats will "discard" if the net gets blocked, as Glen described (though i see no reason to assume this is an everday event, given the kind of net sizes and square panels they use now) and, certainly a few years back, some also "dumped" legal fish over the side to maximise return on quota. You have say 100 boxes a month quota, are capable of catching much more, and the smallest legal size is worth say £18, while the largest is worth £ 45......... Anyone can figure that one out (except the guys that drew up the quota system of course....)

 

I watched the spread of sizes on NE fishmarkets changed after quotas were introduced so have no doubt whatsoever it was commonplace.

 

That was years ago though; I suspect things have changed a lot.

 

Chris

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barry luxton Member

barry luxton

Posted
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Hi Barry,

If i remember right the "motorway" reference was a Shetland Pelagic skipper voicing concern over the activities of the Dutch freezer fleet around Shetland . His allegation was that the freezer trawlers had grading machines ditching small mackerel. Nothing accidental about it; dumping seems a better way to describe it i guess.

The UK pelagic fleet have also "dumped" in the past; though i have no idea of the situation today. In their case ( again as best as i understand) they would slip the net and let go a catch if it was low value, and thet were on tight quotas. I'd imagine a lot of that died after being in the net. It was a side effect of quotas. Yet their "discards" (unwanted species or undersized target species) are very low indeed.

 

The Scots whitefish boats will "discard" if the net gets blocked, as Glen described (though i see no reason to assume this is an everday event, given the kind of net sizes and square panels they use now) and, certainly a few years back, some also "dumped" legal fish over the side to maximise return on quota. You have say 100 boxes a month quota, are capable of catching much more, and the smallest legal size is worth say £18, while the largest is worth £ 45......... Anyone can figure that one out (except the guys that drew up the quota system of course....)

 

I watched the spread of sizes on NE fishmarkets changed after quotas were introduced so have no doubt whatsoever it was commonplace.

 

That was years ago though; I suspect things have changed a lot.

 

Chris

Thanks very much Chris, as i understand it some of the trawlers now have sensors in the nets and know exactly how much and how heavy. Amazing.

 

cheers barry

Free to choose apart from the ones where the trust poked their nose in. Common eel. tope. Bass and sea bream. All restricted.


New for 2016 TAT are the main instigators for the demise of the u k bass charter boat industry, where they went screaming off to parliament and for the first time assisting so called angling gurus set up bass take bans with the e u using rubbish exaggerated info collected by ices from anglers, they must be very proud.

Upgrade, the door has been closed with regards to anglers being linked to the e u superstate and the failed c f p. So TAT will no longer need to pay monies to the EAA anymore as that org is no longer relevant to the u k . Goodbye to the europeon anglers alliance and pathetic restrictions from the e u.

Angling is better than politics, ban politics from angling.

Consumer of bass. where is the evidence that the u k bass stock need angling trust protection. Why won't you work with your peers instead of castigating them. They have the answer.

Recipie's for mullet stew more than welcomed.

Angling sanitation trust and kent and sussex sea anglers org delete's and blocks rsa's alternative opinion on their face book site. Although they claim to rep all.

new for 2014. where is the evidence that the south coast bream stock need the angling trust? Your campaign has no evidence. Why won't you work with your peers, the inshore under tens? As opposed to alienating them? Angling trust failed big time re bait digging, even fish legal attempted to intervene and failed, all for what, nothing.

Looks like the sea angling reps have been coerced by the ifca's to compose sea angling strategy's that the ifca's at some stage will look at drafting into legislation to manage the rsa, because they like wasting tax payers money. That's without asking the rsa btw. You know who you are..

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wurzel Member

wurzel

Posted
Posted

 

 

I 've been doing some work with the WWF lately. As the man said " I've certainly given him something to think about."

 

One of the problems is that they take ICES science as an exact science, it ain't nothing like, as we found out at an ICES presentation recently,

 

Quote

A priority for both

Members States and European Commission should be the

identification of the cause of the significant .so called “unaccounted

for removals”, which according to ICES figures make up 40% of the

cod catches. ICES also go on to say that plausible contributions to

these unaccounted removals are discards of catches in excess of the

quota, and miss- and underreporting of catches. (ICES, 20061)..

 

The same for all stock evaluations, unaccounted removals covers their arses and fills in the gaps that they can't explain.

To think that so much is hung on their advice is frightening

I fish to live and live to fish.

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glennk Member

glennk

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I 've been doing some work with the WWF lately. As the man said " I've certainly given him something to think about."

 

One of the problems is that they take ICES science as an exact science, it ain't nothing like, as we found out at an ICES presentation recently,

 

 

I was surprised at the margin of error. Social scientists work to 95 percent probabilty at the very least. The medical profession's seem to work to at least 99% probability (the risks of being wrong are far greater). Its weird to think there could be significant degrees of error in fisheries research. Its worrying to think they could have significantly under estimated the extent of the problem.

Kayak Fishing Launch Sites

 

COD COD COD COD COD

 

50lb Shore Cod

 

 

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I was surprised at the margin of error. Social scientists work to 95 percent probabilty at the very least. The medical profession's seem to work to at least 99% probability (the risks of being wrong are far greater). Its weird to think there could be significant degrees of error in fisheries research. Its worrying to think they could have significantly under estimated the extent of the problem.

As I have said before, discards are no good to commercial fishermen. They don’t want to catch them. Weather your discards consist of fish, weed, shells starfish or any other marine life that has not got a commercial value to it, it simply is no good.

You can alter a trawl, by just altering the fishing lines or by just tying down the wing ends and the results on catching discards are substantial.

You can work ticklers across the mouth of your net and get maybe a 4% increase in the capture of your ground fish but at the same time have a 70% increase in your discard capture. Such a substantial increase in your discards would result in lost time and efficiency of your trawl.

When people talk about discards and there probability they are talking about expectations founded upon partial knowledge. Because you cannot work out probabilities unless everybody is working in the same manner and in the same area.

Regards.

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glennk Member

glennk

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Posted (edited)
sts it seams to start with discards, then if they don’t seam to get the point across it moves on to blinders. Put blinders in your search on here and it makes interesting reading. At least it would be interesting if FN was to read about the accusations that where being made. :)

 

 

Strange sense of timing you have there John. Maybe its also a good time to type blinders into a search on the Whitby Forum.

 

i was on them just over 7 yrs glenn.things were tied onto the codend to close the meshes.lumps of old conveyer the same size as the codend were a favourite.

 

http://wsaa.proboards106.com/index.cgi?boa...read=1163684122

Edited by glennk

Kayak Fishing Launch Sites

 

COD COD COD COD COD

 

50lb Shore Cod

 

 

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Strange sense of timing you have there John. Maybe its also a good time to type blinders into a search on the Whitby Forum.

http://wsaa.proboards106.com/index.cgi?boa...read=1163684122

His words are so explanatory, next time you talk to him glen, ask him what he use to have on there cod ends to stop stones etc from damaging and then going through the cod end.

Did he really put such a length of conveyer belt inside the cod end to tighten up the meshes? :lol::lol::lol:

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