AN ADVERT IN A NATIONAL NEWSPAPER TO LET ANGLERS KNOW WHATS GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENCES

[big_cod]

What is the situation if:

 

You are out on a boat trip with 11 other anglers and so far you have caught your limit of 2 bass, but no one else has caught any.

 

Do you get your head down until everyone has caught their limit?

 

Do you carry on fishing and throw everything back?

 

Do you carry on fishing and throw back everything smaller than those you have already caught?

 

Do you carry on fishing and at the end of the day, throw back(dead) all but the 2 biggest fish and take them home? Not forgetting to photograph your whole bag before discarding those that put you over your limit!

 

Bring licences in and the damage will be enormous .

Bring bag limits in and most charterboats will be out of buisness over night .

How does it work when a man goes fishing on a boat once a year and has a bag limit of say 4 cod so thats his quota for the year in the commercial sector its done by weight now thats a different ball game you are allowed to catch 100000 small codling or 10000 bigger ones on your quota bit of difference dont you think.

 

A MAN WITH A ROD AND LINE WILL NEVER DO ANY DAMGE IN REAL TEARMS TO ANY FISHERIE HE WHO THINKS DIFFERENT ARE NOT IN THE REAL WORLD.

Edited January 26, 2007 by big_cod

[JB]

What I want to know and Defra does not seem capable of giving an answer to is why do they think that RSAs need to be developed, for which in Spin Speak means Managed, CONTROLLED AND LICENCED, in the first place. WHY CAN'T THEY LEAVE US ALONE?

Hi Henry,

“WHY CAN’T THEY LEAVE US ALONE?” I entirely agree. Unfortunately, for quite some time now, some anglers and angling representatives have been striving to be recognised; another ‘spin’ word being ‘stakeholders’, which also means ‘managed, controlled and licensed anglers’.

 

For the life of me, I can’t comprehend why more people don’t understand the concept that DEFRA, our government and the EU are not there to look after the valuable resource or make things better for all of us. Guess who they are there to make things better for? As Wurzel says, “… your licence fee will help keep them in the standard of living they have become accustomed to.”

 

Maybe when we start to recognise who the enemy really is, we may have more success in our fight.

 

JB

[glennk]

Hi Henry,

“WHY CAN’T THEY LEAVE US ALONE?” I entirely agree. Unfortunately, for quite some time now, some anglers and angling representatives have been striving to be recognised; another ‘spin’ word being ‘stakeholders’, which also means ‘managed, controlled and licensed anglers’.

 

For the life of me, I can’t comprehend why more people don’t understand the concept that DEFRA, our government and the EU are not there to look after the valuable resource or make things better for all of us. Guess who they are there to make things better for? As Wurzel says, “… your licence fee will help keep them in the standard of living they have become accustomed to.”

 

Maybe when we start to recognise who the enemy really is, we may have more success in our fight.

 

JB

 

Localised debate on licences and bag limits in the new forum for fishing issues :

 

http://yalasa.proboards107.com/index.cgi

[Guest challenge]

Bring licences in and the damage will be enormous .

Bring bag limits in and most charterboats will be out of buisness over night .

How does it work when a man goes fishing on a boat once a year and has a bag limit of say 4 cod so thats his quota for the year in the commercial sector its done by weight now thats a different ball game you are allowed to catch 100000 small codling or 10000 bigger ones on your quota bit of difference dont you think.

 

A MAN WITH A ROD AND LINE WILL NEVER DO ANY DAMGE IN REAL TEARMS TO ANY FISHERIE HE WHO THINKS DIFFERENT ARE NOT IN THE REAL WORLD.

Paul, I agree with you on what you say about the damage that could be inflicted on the local charter boat economy if bag limits and rod licences are made compulsory.

I believe that we all know that these restrictions that are being imposed on us have nothing to do with what anglers take in a year, but more to do with accountability.

We all know that the more stakeholders that DEFRA can make accountable to them, the more unaccountable bureaucracy they will be able to manifest into there plans for there future job security when there departments are asked to show accountability.

Angling representatives also seek accountability, for many different reasons.

I believe that things have gone too far for them to be reversed? I hope I am wrong, but knowing this government and it’s departments I don’t believe that they will now back track on anything that will create bureaucracy, there world depends on it so much to survive.

Don’t keep bringing commercial fishermen into the equation by comparing what they catch and what anglers catch Paul. There is no point.

You have to remember that commercial fishermen have been putting up with this sort of bureaucracy for decades; they are certainly accountable for everything that they catch.

They are limited to what they catch by the same bureaucrats that want to regulate the RSA industry.

We know that the commercial industry catches in tonnage more than the recreational anglers, simply because that’s something they have perfected over hundreds of years, that’s what there good at Paul. That’s what they do for a living.

Ill tell you what’s happened in the real world Paul. Commercial fishermen have grown tired of continues attacks from certain recreational anglers and there reps. they are sick to death of certain extremist that have managed to worm there way into fishery management matters under the disguise of being recreational angling representatives. it a shame because I believe that there are some very honourable and hardworking reps out there trying to help in anyway possible to safeguard a traditional hobby enjoyed by millions.

Commercial fishermen will use the same ammunition that angling reps used to justify there call for recognition within fishery matters. I.e. 5 million angers, spending millions of pounds in there pursuit of catching fish, angling reps stating that anglers do want bag limits and licences.

It has nothing to do with how much fish you catch, but it does have a lot to do with the accountability of the fish you have caught.

Regards

[barry luxton]

Paul, I agree with you on what you say about the damage that could be inflicted on the local charter boat economy if bag limits and rod licences are made compulsory.

I believe that we all know that these restrictions that are being imposed on us have nothing to do with what anglers take in a year, but more to do with accountability.

We all know that the more stakeholders that DEFRA can make accountable to them, the more unaccountable bureaucracy they will be able to manifest into there plans for there future job security when there departments are asked to show accountability.

Angling representatives also seek accountability, for many different reasons.

I believe that things have gone too far for them to be reversed? I hope I am wrong, but knowing this government and it’s departments I don’t believe that they will now back track on anything that will create bureaucracy, there world depends on it so much to survive.

Don’t keep bringing commercial fishermen into the equation by comparing what they catch and what anglers catch Paul. There is no point.

You have to remember that commercial fishermen have been putting up with this sort of bureaucracy for decades; they are certainly accountable for everything that they catch.

They are limited to what they catch by the same bureaucrats that want to regulate the RSA industry.

We know that the commercial industry catches in tonnage more than the recreational anglers, simply because that’s something they have perfected over hundreds of years, that’s what there good at Paul. That’s what they do for a living.

Ill tell you what’s happened in the real world Paul. Commercial fishermen have grown tired of continues attacks from certain recreational anglers and there reps. they are sick to death of certain extremist that have managed to worm there way into fishery management matters under the disguise of being recreational angling representatives. it a shame because I believe that there are some very honourable and hardworking reps out there trying to help in anyway possible to safeguard a traditional hobby enjoyed by millions.

Commercial fishermen will use the same ammunition that angling reps used to justify there call for recognition within fishery matters. I.e. 5 million angers, spending millions of pounds in there pursuit of catching fish, angling reps stating that anglers do want bag limits and licences.

It has nothing to do with how much fish you catch, but it does have a lot to do with the accountability of the fish you have caught.

Regards

 

Bag limits for the bass. You have to also bring into the equation challenge, Wag who have wrote a letter to ben and co, remember them, they are the ones after an enormous amount of advice decided not to join with the mainland and increase the mls and for what reason do you consider they chose Challenge? Then they had the gaul to write this letter stating that the illegal selling of the bass has a more devastating effect as apposed to increasing the size limit. I must refer you to the just published pan europeon study 2006 Challenge, page 90-91 i think where the bass total of black fishing is stated as minimum compared with the take. I wonder how much of this tiny figure can actually be apportioned to rsa? Where do you stand regarding size limit Challenge, remember the size the welsh want it is way before they reach adult hood, ie child molesting? I'm sorry mate but this is an emotive issue and it is no good siding by one part of the uk fishing industry when common sence must prevail.

 

I have read an interveiw report that bradshaw had with bob cox, within it bradshaw agrees that 538 mill is generated by rsa and 42 mill is generated by commercial to the economy annually regarding fish that are jointly targeted. In his next breath he states that the rsa are the ones who are being overpowerd by the commercial sector within the seafisheries commitees, what is your take on that Challenge? Another question asked of him, is defra the right department to look after the rsa, yes was the reply, again, the bass mls will not reach a sensible size for another four or so years, comments please. Another question, licences to the rsa, it was pointed out to him that licences to the commercial sector where issued free, why then should rsa be left picking up the tab for the decimated fish stock, the reply was he has not ruled out cost recovery from commercial. Does that mean he will charge commercial licence fees as well. I don't think we have heard the last of this, do you?

 

So ben and co have done no more than to RUSH through or try, a bylaw that is cr.p and for no reason apart from appeasing you know who and the welsh, how can you defend that Challenge? Please understand, i'm not anti commercial, i consider that the goel posts need adjusting for fairness.

Edited January 26, 2007 by barry luxton

[big_cod]

Paul, I agree with you on what you say about the damage that could be inflicted on the local charter boat economy if bag limits and rod licences are made compulsory.

I believe that we all know that these restrictions that are being imposed on us have nothing to do with what anglers take in a year, but more to do with accountability.

We all know that the more stakeholders that DEFRA can make accountable to them, the more unaccountable bureaucracy they will be able to manifest into there plans for there future job security when there departments are asked to show accountability.

Angling representatives also seek accountability, for many different reasons.

I believe that things have gone too far for them to be reversed? I hope I am wrong, but knowing this government and it’s departments I don’t believe that they will now back track on anything that will create bureaucracy, there world depends on it so much to survive.

Don’t keep bringing commercial fishermen into the equation by comparing what they catch and what anglers catch Paul. There is no point.

You have to remember that commercial fishermen have been putting up with this sort of bureaucracy for decades; they are certainly accountable for everything that they catch.

They are limited to what they catch by the same bureaucrats that want to regulate the RSA industry.

We know that the commercial industry catches in tonnage more than the recreational anglers, simply because that’s something they have perfected over hundreds of years, that’s what there good at Paul. That’s what they do for a living.

Ill tell you what’s happened in the real world Paul. Commercial fishermen have grown tired of continues attacks from certain recreational anglers and there reps. they are sick to death of certain extremist that have managed to worm there way into fishery management matters under the disguise of being recreational angling representatives. it a shame because I believe that there are some very honourable and hardworking reps out there trying to help in anyway possible to safeguard a traditional hobby enjoyed by millions.

Commercial fishermen will use the same ammunition that angling reps used to justify there call for recognition within fishery matters. I.e. 5 million angers, spending millions of pounds in there pursuit of catching fish, angling reps stating that anglers do want bag limits and licences.

It has nothing to do with how much fish you catch, but it does have a lot to do with the accountability of the fish you have caught.

Regards

 

John comparing what anglers catch to the the commercial sector doesnt mean i am haveing a go what i am doing is saying to the people who are setting the rules DEFRA that what little anglers take in the real world bag limits wont make a **** of differnce they will only do immense harm to the angling trade it will create a downturn in angling as we know it if i could see any sense in bag limits i would be for it but beleive me if there is bag limits there will be many charteboats out of buisness over night i have allready explained this to one of the guys at defra whether it fell on deaf ears i not sure but he did seem to understand our concerns i just dont think it had been explained to him by our reps but only time will tell .

 

REGARDS

 

PAUL.

Edited January 27, 2007 by big_cod

[Guest challenge]

Hello Barry.

First of all I must state that I am no Bass Fisherman or do I take a big interest (like the majority do on here) into there fishing affairs.

But first I would like to answer your question on RSA affairs being in the safe hands of DERA. If you want to know the answer to that, I would suggest that you ask any commercial fishermen who have become slaves to there badly managed bureaucracy over the years.

How much money do you think that the agricultural industry makes this government per year? Compared with lets say the construction industry? They both use the land. Is land more valuable to the government for farming than it is to the government from developers?

Why have millions of acres of land stood empty, (costing the taxpayer millions in grants and aid) when these farmers could be removed from there historical heritage and asked to find work elsewhere?

Is it because at the end of the day we do not live in a country that would allow that to happen on a massive scale?

It would not win any of the politicians any votes. Politicians do more than enough backhanded discriminate acts as it is. Without totally destroying an industry.

That is why they would never totally get rid of a historical industry just to satisfy somebody’s pastime.

You have to have industry’s that take up large amounts of bureaucrats and bureaucracy to run otherwise a lot of governmental departments would be out of a job.

The fishing industry and the farming industry have been cut to the bone in regards of size therefore they (the government) need more stakeholders to be able to be held accountable for there massive bureaucratic departments that they run.

Paul.

I believe and agree with what you say. It is obvious that a lot of anglers on here don’t. Especially the ones who consider themselves as representatives. You only have to look at the reaction of them when I posted that thread with pictures to prove that there still was plenty of fish to be caught in the North Sea. http://www.chieftaincharters.com/PHOTOS%20SEPT-OCT%2006.htm

Regards.

[glennk]

Still plenty from the shore too.

 

http://wsaa.proboards106.com/index.cgi?boa...read=1169857099

[Guest challenge]

Still plenty from the shore too.

 

http://wsaa.proboards106.com/index.cgi?boa...read=1169857099

That’s brilliant glen, and I noticed that the lad said he had it scares a previous day. It nice to see that he got himself good night fishing and a good fry when he had the chance.

If it was up to others he would have had to return at least half of the good nights catch, so that a few bass representatives and people who fish in backwater lochs somewhere secluded on the west coast of Scotland could get a bit of a say when they come up against commercial representation.

It’s a dam shame.

Regards.

[barry luxton]

Hello Barry.

First of all I must state that I am no Bass Fisherman or do I take a big interest (like the majority do on here) into there fishing affairs.

But first I would like to answer your question on RSA affairs being in the safe hands of DERA. If you want to know the answer to that, I would suggest that you ask any commercial fishermen who have become slaves to there badly managed bureaucracy over the years.

How much money do you think that the agricultural industry makes this government per year? Compared with lets say the construction industry? They both use the land. Is land more valuable to the government for farming than it is to the government from developers?

Why have millions of acres of land stood empty, (costing the taxpayer millions in grants and aid) when these farmers could be removed from there historical heritage and asked to find work elsewhere?

Is it because at the end of the day we do not live in a country that would allow that to happen on a massive scale?

It would not win any of the politicians any votes. Politicians do more than enough backhanded discriminate acts as it is. Without totally destroying an industry.

That is why they would never totally get rid of a historical industry just to satisfy somebody’s pastime.

You have to have industry’s that take up large amounts of bureaucrats and bureaucracy to run otherwise a lot of governmental departments would be out of a job.

The fishing industry and the farming industry have been cut to the bone in regards of size therefore they (the government) need more stakeholders to be able to be held accountable for there massive bureaucratic departments that they run.

Paul.

I believe and agree with what you say. It is obvious that a lot of anglers on here don’t. Especially the ones who consider themselves as representatives. You only have to look at the reaction of them when I posted that thread with pictures to prove that there still was plenty of fish to be caught in the North Sea. http://www.chieftaincharters.com/PHOTOS%20SEPT-OCT%2006.htm

Regards.

 

 

Challenge if you believe in what you have printed, then you should be standing up and trying to protect what is going to happen to the rsa. It just so happens that the bass angler is first in line, again what you have stated about defra you should be joining them to protect the angler. You have no part in commercial fishing yet you stand by them admirably. What next, when defra decides to administer bag limits regarding cod by the rsa within the whole of the north sea for conservation reasons, would you look for and expect help from all of the rsa or would you like to see that kind of restriction as well. I believe John Brennan said something like know who your real enemy is?

 

Plenty of fish? Are you talking about the whole of the north sea or are you describing what is caught on some of the wrecks? Do you fish for anything else in the north sea apart from cod? In the channel there is a diversity from both reef and wreck, what do you fish for. Thanks.

Edited January 28, 2007 by barry luxton