Apathy rules yet again

[Bob Bradford]

I agree John we do differ regarding the Nations natural fish stocks and how they should be managed, you advocate Carte Blanch, anything goes, Otters,Cormorants Mink etc killing and eating specimen fish together with anglers retaining the right to take them for the pot,

 

Possibly years ago our rivers could find this sustainable, but with many rivers disappearing and drying up through water abstraction and lack of rainfall we have to adapt accordingly and start to implement some sort of order, taking specimen fish for the pot has got to stop, re-introducing top line predators like Otters must cease, Mink and Cormorants need to be culled and managed properly and Anglers like you and me need to lobby our MPs ( I have done so already) to support and sign the Blueprint for Water scheme for the benefit of man and animal, Gone forever are the Jack Hargreaves Countryman days of old John, a sad fact though it is, we must adapt to the here and now mate,

Regards Bob.

[Cranfield]

I agree John we do differ regarding the Nations natural fish stocks and how they should be managed, you advocate Carte Blanch, anything goes, Otters,Cormorants Mink etc killing and eating specimen fish together with anglers retaining the right to take them for the pot,

 

Possibly years ago our rivers could find this sustainable, but with many rivers disappearing and drying up through water abstraction and lack of rainfall we have to adapt accordingly and start to implement some sort of order, taking specimen fish for the pot has got to stop, re-introducing top line predators like Otters must cease, Mink and Cormorants need to be culled and managed properly and Anglers like you and me need to lobby our MPs ( I have done so already) to support and sign the Blueprint for Water scheme for the benefit of man and animal, Gone forever are the Jack Hargreaves Countryman days of old John, a sad fact though it is, we must adapt to the here and now mate,

Regards Bob.

 

At last a comment I can understand.

 

We are top of the food chain and the fish are ours, just for our pleasure and use.

 

Any creature that includes fish in its diet should be exterminated, (but not pike, because they are necessary to keep a fishery healthy and anyway, we can catch those as well ).

[charliebettell]

Neither can I Cranfield.

 

You will have to pardon my ignorance Charlie. I too have watched fish lying stationary for long periods, (I get almost as much pleasure watching fish as I do catching them). But, unless the fish were sick, old or the water was an unusual temperature, then any unusual movement from myself, another angler, cattle, sheep or even a large bird flying over, sent them off into deeper water or under cover. This I stress, is just from my own experiences. As for catching them in a landing net, I have never tried except when rescuing them. If you have personal experience, or have witnessed this under normal circumstances, then, why, isn't it illegal?

 

"

 

Bob, I didn't say I thought it didn't happen. I said that, IMO more anglers baits were taken by wild foul than otters. Which can be down to people feeding them, as Den stated with otters not being afraid of man, but sees them as a source of a free meal.

The otter population dwindled because of pollution, persecution and loss of habitat, all these things caused by man. To reintroduce them into our waterways is just an attempt to atone for that mistake. As Cranfield said, there were many more otters around pre the 1960/70s. Whats changed? IMO it's angling and anglers. Though I don't agree with all your posts Bob, you have said that a lot of the motivation behind your thoughts on conservation is for selfish reasons, in that you want more fish available for anglers to fish for. I applaud you for your honesty, I wish more were as open about their motives. We appear to differ in our thoughts on what a 'fishery' is. To me it's a stretch of water, from which I attempt to catch fish, and enjoy the full 'package', ie, the fish I catch, as well as the wildlife that share the water with me. The modern view of a 'fishery' seems to me to be, a stretch of water where anglers have the monopoly on the catching of fish, where fish are valued by their size, their monetary worth, or their value to the ego or fame of certain anglers, and, anything that comes in the way of that must be dealt with.

As to the behaviour in the links provided by Leon. Most of that can also be attributed to the behaviour of pike. In fact a Mr Nudd said so in a recent article and was rightfully shot down for doing so. But maybe that doesn't count? After all pike have a value to the angler where otters and the like do not.

John

Me using a landing net to scoop a fish off the bottom, i.e. to see if it is ill or injured, is no more illegal than you rescuing fish using a landing net.

 

Do you think that there should be one rule for you and another for me with regard using a landing net to net a non hooked fish?

Edited January 2, 2007 by charliebettell

[gozzer]

I agree John we do differ regarding the Nations natural fish stocks and how they should be managed, you advocate Carte Blanch, anything goes, Otters,Cormorants Mink etc killing and eating specimen fish together with anglers retaining the right to take them for the pot,

 

Possibly years ago our rivers could find this sustainable, but with many rivers disappearing and drying up through water abstraction and lack of rainfall we have to adapt accordingly and start to implement some sort of order, taking specimen fish for the pot has got to stop, re-introducing top line predators like Otters must cease, Mink and Cormorants need to be culled and managed properly and Anglers like you and me need to lobby our MPs ( I have done so already) to support and sign the Blueprint for Water scheme for the benefit of man and animal, Gone forever are the Jack Hargreaves Countryman days of old John, a sad fact though it is, we must adapt to the here and now mate,

Regards Bob.

 

Whoa there Bob, I wish you'd stop doing that to me mate. I've never advocated the taking of 'specimen' fish for the pot. I have said that the odd perch and grayling of about 12oz to 1lb and pike up to 4-5lb were the ones I have taken in the past, and still maintain the right to do so in the future, If I so wish, and it's still legal.

I have never advocated 'ca rte blanch' on the matter of predators, and I have even been involved in the trapping of mink, when a water was over run with them. I do mean over run with them, it got so bad that one angler had one leap on him from a branch, and I had to fend one off with a landing net handle, on one occasion.

 

You are right though, in saying that I belong to a different angling world, to the one I see at present. I have never come to terms with 'instant' fisheries, 'instant' fish and 'instant' records. I can't understand the need to stock fish to naturally unsustainable levels, and call them 'fisheries'. Naming fish and targeting them constantly, in case it weighs a few ounces more than the last time it was caught, and is claimed as a new 'record', is alien to my way of thinking. The mass importing of non indigenous species, along with the problems that can come with them, is something else that puzzles me. I could go on but I won't. I'll just sign off this thread, and continue to live in what's left of my angling world, where 6lb barbel, 3-4lb chub, tench and bream are still worthy of note, where each session, whether building a bag of fish on the local cut is just as enjoyable as stalking a small streams for chub. It's the being there that counts as much as the fish I catch. And the 'being there' means accepting and sharing the water with others who fish, be they human, have feathers or have fur.

I know my world is getting smaller, but there are still a few like minded people about, and a few waters where I can go and practise my 'old fashioned' methods. And you know what Bob? I think it's more enjoyable in my world, and if it ever disappears completely, then I'll have no reason to go fishing again.

 

 

John.

 

Edit.

Me using a landing net to scoop a fish off the bottom, i.e. to see if it is ill or injured, is no more illegal than you rescuing fish using a landing net.

 

Do you think that there should be one rule for you and another for me with regard using a landing net to net a non hooked fish?

 

Sorry I know I said I was signing off, but I just noticed Charlies post.

 

No Charlie, I don't think there should be one rule for me and another fore you. The comment was made tongue in cheek, sorry, I should have added a smiley to make it obvious.

The fish I scooped out with a landing net, were being transferred from a mill pond that had been polluted, and seeing as several hundred of them were gasping on the surface, there was no doubt they were in trouble.

 

John.

Edited January 2, 2007 by gozzer

[Jim Roper]

I haven't seen an otter on our River Wey for over 40 years. I've seen a lot less trout during that time also.

 

I thought the otter's favourite meal was Silver Eel!

 

100% conservation just leads to imbalances. Look how the elephants starved everything else that had the same diet when they were no longer hunted for their ivory.

 

Look how Magpies and Crows have depleted the amount of songbirds since boys were stopped egg-collecting. http://www.songbird-survival.org.uk/

 

Look how the crime has increased since the do-gooders made it fashionable to feel sorry for thieves and burglars, especially if they are not white English.

Edited January 5, 2007 by Jim Roper