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Kent and Essex SFC & bag limits on anglers


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DEFRA were hoping to be able to use the Marine Bill to impose bag limits on sea anglers. The Marine Bill wasn't in the Queen's speech this year, so it will be 2008 at the earliest before the new legislation can be used to impose bag limits on sea anglers. DEFRA don't want to wait that long, so they have asked for the assistance of the Association of Sea Fisheries Committees. Anthony Hynes sent a letter to the ASFC asking for their help in bringing about local by laws, via sea fisheries committees, that will see anglers limited to how many bass they can keep. There was no letter to the ASFC asking for their assistance to impose restrictions on commercial fishing though.

 

DEFRA say bag limits will be used as a conservation measure, but only if they are needed and even then, only alongside restrictions on commercial effort. According to DEFRA in their statement after the new bass MLS was announced, bass are currently being fished sustainably, yet they are pushing for bag limits on anglers and no restrictions on commercial effort.

 

So if DEFRA are desperate to impose bag limits for bass, (and they must be because they aren't prepared to wait until 2008), which according to them are being fished sustainably, then what will they want to do with Cod which they know are in trouble? Total catch and release maybe?

 

If anyone can work out exactly what is going on within DEFRA, please let me know because I can't make any of this add up.

Edited by Steve Coppolo

DRUNK DRIVERS WRECK LIVES.

 

Don't drink and drive.

 

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I beg to differ, I've seen it done on bass marks and wrecks.

 

I not saying you dont know what you are talking about but do you really know what goes on at sea thoses frenchmen over channel will be busting there sides with laughter when you compair what they take in bass and then look at what anglers take leave s few more for the french.

I am sure i read somewhere anglers impact on stocks is less than half of 1% and that is probably way over the top toerag get real thoses few bass you put back wont make a **** of difference.

Put bag limits on and the charter angling fleets will vanish into thin air so what about the guy who goes fishing once a year is it fair to him.

Edited by big_cod

http://sea-otter2.co.uk/

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But what is the driving factor behind wanting to restrict catches of a fish that is currently within safe limits ? What is behind this.

 

Hi Glenn

 

Don't forget, that Defra and WAG are talking here specifically about bass - not cod, or wrasse, or mackerel, pout, or whiting, or any other species - at the moment.

 

They are claiming that imposing a bag limit of 5 fish per day per person will allow them and fisheries protection agencies to differenciate between genuine anglers and unlicenced commercials who catch boxes of bass and sell them through the back door.

 

Personally - I can see the logic in this, because if a couple of cowboys in a powered vessel land dozens of bass into a harbour, with the intention of selling them on, at the moment, unless they are caught in the act of selling them, they can claim that they are anglers and not breaking any of the rules what-so-ever. They are untouchable.

What I can't see the logic in, is saying that this is a conservation tool when zero restrictions on gill netting and commercial rod and lining are being proposed. This is a market protection exercise - plain and simple.

 

Toerags comment about bass being cleared out from local marks is true in many instances around the South coast and some areas of Wales. Unlicenced commercial rod and liners can be very efficient and are capable of severely impacting on local stocks. Areas have been decimated of good numbers of bass for long periods of time.

 

The only 'scientific' statement which appears to be accepted by some is that bass stocks are currently being fished 'sustainably' and this is used as justification for doing nothing to enhance the bass populations.

What this one word doesn't portray is the undeniable fact that the breeding stocks of bass are dwindling and medium sized fish of 4lb and above are becoming scarce. With a minimum landing size set at below maturity and the brood stock under pressure, bass are being squeezed from both ends.

 

The real tragedy of all this is that conditions are favourable for bass and there are probably more bass around (numerically) that there have been in the past decade. Once the young ones get to 36cm (40cm from next April, which is still below the size of first spawning for females) and they are hammered before they can spawn even once, it can only be a few more years before bass too are on the pressure list and the current opportunity will have been wasted because of short-sightedness by some.

 

Bag limits for anglers won't save bass, but that isn't the reason behind the proposal.

 

Cheers

Steve

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Thanks for that Steve. Its good news that this is just for bass. Isn't a bag limit part of the BMP anyway ? Its what you all want isn't it ? I just wish when people talked about these things they would make it clear it is only bass it would save a lot of hassle. I think just as we are guilty on thinking there are only cod in the sea some of you guys in the south are as guilty of thinking the same of the bass. It really is time these things were made clearly species and area specific then you would be saving me a lot of stress B) .

 

Secondly though Steve although not a bass angler and not effected by what is happening here I do question the logic of it all ? Are there not already laws in existence to stop illegal sale of backdoor fish ? Doesnt the buyers and sellers law prohibit the purchase of fish from unlicensed individuals ? What about the guy who fishes 5 times a year and is lucky enough on one occasion to catch 6 or 7 bass and wants to give the odd one to his parents and stick a few in the freezer , does he have to put some back and suffer because some unscrupulous people are taking more than they should and selling them ? For what its worth IMO the guilty should be targeted not those enjoying their hobby.

 

Cheers for clearing it up though Steve.

 

Regards - Glenn

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Thanks for that Steve. Its good news that this is just for bass. Isn't a bag limit part of the BMP anyway ? Its what you all want isn't it ? I just wish when people talked about these things they would make it clear it is only bass it would save a lot of hassle. I think just as we are guilty on thinking there are only cod in the sea some of you guys in the south are as guilty of thinking the same of the bass. It really is time these things were made clearly species and area specific then you would be saving me a lot of stress B) .

 

Secondly though Steve although not a bass angler and not effected by what is happening here I do question the logic of it all ? Are there not already laws in existence to stop illegal sale of backdoor fish ? Doesnt the buyers and sellers law prohibit the purchase of fish from unlicensed individuals ? What about the guy who fishes 5 times a year and is lucky enough on one occasion to catch 6 or 7 bass and wants to give the odd one to his parents and stick a few in the freezer , does he have to put some back and suffer because some unscrupulous people are taking more than they should and selling them ? For what its worth IMO the guilty should be targeted not those enjoying their hobby.

 

Cheers for clearing it up though Steve.

 

Regards - Glenn

 

Hi Glenn

I'm glad you think it's alright because it's "only bass". I'm alright Jack? Maybe you are...........for now. Don't make the mistake that because it's bass now that it won't be Cod tomorrow. Also, there is talk of a 5 fish limits being bandied around by some. This is totally wrong if you ask me. There isn't a bag limit yet and speculation won't do us any favours, but back to my point. Even if the bag limit was set at 5 fish, don't make the mistake of thinking it would stay at that level. Once bag limits are in they can be swapped and changed at will, and probably will be. We must fight these stupid proposals at all costs whether they directly affect us now or not.

 

As for the BMP wanting bag limits, well, sort of. The idea was to get restrictions on commercial fishing and then enhance those measures with bag limits for anglers, to stop the scenario that Steve P described with the small unlicenced boats landing loads of bass, etc. However, DEFRA's ideas are quite different. They want to impose bag limits on sea anglers to protect the market prices of back door sales for commercial licenced fishermen. What they are proposing will not benefit the bass stocks in any way, shape or form because it matters not to the angler whether the commercial fisherman catching the bass have a licence or not. The fact is the bass will still be caught in the same numbers. The whole thing is a cock up.

DRUNK DRIVERS WRECK LIVES.

 

Don't drink and drive.

 

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Its good news that this is just for bass. Isn't a bag limit part of the BMP anyway ? Its what you all want isn't it ?

I think just as we are guilty on thinking there are only cod in the sea some of you guys in the south are as guilty of thinking the same of the bass.

It really is time these things were made clearly species and area specific then you would be saving me a lot of stress B) .

 

Regards - Glenn

 

Hi Glenn

 

Without wishing to confuse matters - there are two sets of bag limit proposals doing the rounds.

 

Defra have asked The Association of Sea Fisheries Committees to look at introducing bag limits for bass through byelaws, in order to clamp down on unlicenced sales of bass. This has been on the cards for years and was originally put forward by MAFF, due to pressure from the inshore commercial sector. A big deal of it was made by the inshore commercial sector in the bass MLS consultation in Wales recently and the Minister and his minions came out in favour of bag limits as a means of improving bass stocks, rather than increasing the bass MLS to a meaningful level like 45cms.

Complete and utter waste of time to introduce bag limits, with no other restriction on landings, unless you happen to make your living as a commercial bass fisherman.

 

Then we have the RSA strategy, which contains reference to bag limit impositions.

This is not restricted to bass, but suggests that any species under threat could be included in an angler bag limit scenario.

I guess that cod could easily fall into this catagory - if the SCIENCE suggests that a bag limit would benefit the stock.

Bugger the economics of it, or the fact that this would effect a majority stakeholder, or their rights - SCIENCE will drive the requirements apparently.

 

Don't think for one minute that bass are the only species likely to be the subject of bag limit proposals at some point in the future.

 

As I said in my previous post - I can see the logic in bag limits and I'll go further by saying that I would support them for bass, because I think that as PART of a management plan they would work. Bag limits for anglers and meaningless increases in the MLS alone, just make a mockery of the whole concept of the BMP.

 

Cheers

Steve

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Steve I was raking through my old emails last night and found one from you saying how brilliant the BMP is. Obviously your views have changed - I am aware of that. If you read my letter above you will see I have written to your sfc and expressed my concerns. I disagree with anyone who suggests anglers dent fish stocks there is no real evidence of this and secondly I disagree with introducing a law to stop something which is already illegal especially when that law restricts law abiding citizens from participating in their hobby.

 

I have been lead to believe by some here, perhaps wrongly that bass anglers are in favour of the bmp and bag limits, perhaps I am wrong ?

 

Steve do you think the majority of bass anglers want this ? what are you doing to oppose it ?

 

To be honest I don't know why you bass anglers are even willing to trade off parts of your sport for restrictions on commercial fishing - but if its what you want then so be it. If stocks are under threat from commercial fishing that should be enough to make the government do something, if your stocks are not under threat why the concern.

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Hi Glenn

 

Without wishing to confuse matters - there are two sets of bag limit proposals doing the rounds.

 

Defra have asked The Association of Sea Fisheries Committees to look at introducing bag limits for bass through byelaws, in order to clamp down on unlicenced sales of bass. This has been on the cards for years and was originally put forward by MAFF, due to pressure from the inshore commercial sector. A big deal of it was made by the inshore commercial sector in the bass MLS consultation in Wales recently and the Minister and his minions came out in favour of bag limits as a means of improving bass stocks, rather than increasing the bass MLS to a meaningful level like 45cms.

Complete and utter waste of time to introduce bag limits, with no other restriction on landings, unless you happen to make your living as a commercial bass fisherman.

 

Then we have the RSA strategy, which contains reference to bag limit impositions.

This is not restricted to bass, but suggests that any species under threat could be included in an angler bag limit scenario.

I guess that cod could easily fall into this catagory - if the SCIENCE suggests that a bag limit would benefit the stock.

Bugger the economics of it, or the fact that this would effect a majority stakeholder, or their rights - SCIENCE will drive the requirements apparently.

 

Don't think for one minute that bass are the only species likely to be the subject of bag limit proposals at some point in the future.

 

As I said in my previous post - I can see the logic in bag limits and I'll go further by saying that I would support them for bass, because I think that as PART of a management plan they would work. Bag limits for anglers and meaningless increases in the MLS alone, just make a mockery of the whole concept of the BMP.

 

Cheers

Steve

 

So anglers could be restricted by a science which has been ignored by the eu and our government for 10 years or longer. That's a bit ironic isn't it. The day they try to stick a bag limit on anglers and wipe out our charter fleets and fishing clubs in the north east will be a very sad day indeed. I wonder if they will have the balls to try it ? Our conservative MP is watching every move that's made on this, no doubt waiting to score a few political points. I've also spoken to the lib dem candidate and am encouraged by her thoughts on the whole thing - I get the feeling she knows where the whole blame for this lies.

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Hi Glenn

I'm glad you think it's alright because it's "only bass". I'm alright Jack? Maybe you are...........for now. Don't make the mistake that because it's bass now that it won't be Cod tomorrow. Also, there is talk of a 5 fish limits being bandied around by some. This is totally wrong if you ask me. There isn't a bag limit yet and speculation won't do us any favours, but back to my point. Even if the bag limit was set at 5 fish, don't make the mistake of thinking it would stay at that level. Once bag limits are in they can be swapped and changed at will, and probably will be. We must fight these stupid proposals at all costs whether they directly affect us now or not.

 

As for the BMP wanting bag limits, well, sort of. The idea was to get restrictions on commercial fishing and then enhance those measures with bag limits for anglers, to stop the scenario that Steve P described with the small unlicenced boats landing loads of bass, etc. However, DEFRA's ideas are quite different. They want to impose bag limits on sea anglers to protect the market prices of back door sales for commercial licenced fishermen. What they are proposing will not benefit the bass stocks in any way, shape or form because it matters not to the angler whether the commercial fisherman catching the bass have a licence or not. The fact is the bass will still be caught in the same numbers. The whole thing is a cock up.

 

 

Steve I have set up an area of my website dedicated to opposing this crap. I've number 1 spot in google for the search term sea angling strategy , and recreational sea angling strategy - hopefully we can get a differing point of view out there and let them know not everyone is in favour. If you want me to add any pages detailing your opposition to this just write it and email it to me - Ill do the rest.

 

If you could drop this url into as many posts as possible you would be helping the opposition cause no end :

 

www.whitbyseaanglers.co.uk/recreational-sea-angling-strategy.php

 

Cheers - Glenn

Edited by glennk
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