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An Alliance Between Anglers And Commercials?


stavey

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Autumn, i was going to ask if the inshore/inshore men as brian puts it were causing the problem but as its the larger pair trawlers your main beef is with then thats were you have to work on. sounds to me you could have some allies in the commercial sector that could help you object to these big trawlers working close in. possibilities there" find a way of contacted these inshore/inshore boys and see what they have to say..........

I Fish For Sport Not Me Belly

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Gentlemen, it might help if we understand our commercial fishermen. We have already established that successive governments have treated him very badly. Consequently, it is quite understandable why he has no faith or trust whatsoever that our politicians will ever look after his interests.

 

Along with most of the self employed people in the UK, he is fighting for his livelihood. But the difference for many commercial fishermen is that fishing is not just a job to them, and it’s not “all about money”. A commercial fisherman often carries more passion in his blood for his vocation than members of this forum do about the sport of angling – and I have seen much passion on this forum. Therefore, if he was told, as some members of this forum have said in the past, that “fishing is not working, so get another job!”, it would be like telling you to burn your fishing rods and get a set of golf clubs instead.

 

For many years now, he has been taking a massive gamble. He knows the state of the industry. He believes that if he can hold on, others will get out of the industry, and at the end of the day only he and a few others will be left. And those that are left will do well.

 

He has all his money, all his life and all his passion invested in this plan. It is like the game of musical chairs. When the music starts, they all go to sea. When the music stops, the government makes yet one more rule to put yet another fisherman out of business.

It may not be a good plan but it is the only one he has.

 

Many of the forum members read the Fishing News. Some of the content implies that there is plenty of fish – “so leave the commercial fishermen alone”. This is propaganda intended for politicians, to try and stop them interfering and making the job even worse than it already is.

Unfortunately, members of this forum seem to think that the commercial fishermen truly believe this propaganda. But I have yet to come across a commercial fisherman who is not as concerned for the future of the fisheries as any angler on this forum. Nevertheless, as I have said in the past, the commercial lads have been shafted so many times they trust very few people. However, given the right approach, representatives from both the commercial and recreational sectors could form an alliance - and make progress.

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However, given the right approach, representatives from both the commercial and recreational sectors could form an alliance - and make progress.

 

Hi old man of the sea, what would be the right aproach? and how do you like the way the thread is being received so far?

I Fish For Sport Not Me Belly

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Hi Autumn,

 

Perhaps it is not just the commercials who will not open their eyes and ears to other possibilties.

 

As I understand it the quotas don't work because they are unworkable. If that is the case then a workable system needs to be employed.

 

Everybody would like to see our fishing controlled 100% out to the twelve mile line by British interest.

 

 

Time to be realistic Ken.

 

Nothing is impossible to achieve if the will is there to do it, both us and the commercials would like to see a twelve mile exclusive zone. Maybe between the two parties enough power can be generated to get the right result. Nothing to lose much to be gained.

 

Giving up before you start gets you no where, having a go even if you don't succeed is much the better option.

I fish, I catches a few, I lose a few, BUT I enjoys. Anglers Trust PM

 

eat.gif

 

http://www.petalsgardencenter.com

 

Petals Florist

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An issue i am trying to get my head round, concerns the whole black market thing that Autumn keeps reminding us off.

 

If it was universally acknowledged that the Black market was huge, why did the Defra and therefore the government refuse to police it. Is it that Defra officials themselves didn't believe in the quota system, or has the government allowed it to go on. Has the government deliberatley gambled with our fish resources to save them paying out compensation.

 

It is only EU ruling that has made Defra get their act together.

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www.onyermarks.co.uk

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Originally posted by Brian Carragher:

[QB] Ians comments above highlight the dangerous game that some anglers play. its a bit like kids games of cops and robers or goodies and baddies ,and to me thats what statements like Ians are,just childish.

 

Childish or just realistic. Commercial fishing has so many different aspects to it, that they can't agree amongst themselves.

 

The local lobster and whelk fisherman found that the recent clam dredge invasion has ruined much of their patch and are trying to get the dredgers stopped. The dredgers just told them to fxcxk off

 

I consider them mates but laugh at the petty squabling between themselves. They continuously accuse each other of emptying their creels. They formed an association, and decided to leave the inshore whelk fishing for the winter when they couldn't get far off shore, One lad after a week on the booze, fished the forbidden area, made a few quid extra, after a big fallout, they all went in. Result;If the weather is bad no one earns a pound.

 

Another example is when a super crabber came up to Luce Bay from Cornwall. He could catch more in one day than they could collectively catch in a month. Fortunatley they managed to get him banned from Luce Bay as he could have finished of their livlihoods.

 

One can only ask if the skippers off the Clam dredgers and the super Crabber, care about anything other than their own financial renumeration. Do they not care thay are putting fellow fisherman out of work just because they have bigger and more powerful boats.

 

Brian

If one commercial fisherman can knowingly and deliberatley cause hardship to another commercial fisherman, do you think that man is going to sit round a table and negotiate his rights away.

 

How can I sit round a table and negotiate, with 28 clam dredger skippers, all from other areas, that in 2 months last year, destroyed much of the fishing in Luce Bay for the next twenty years? What is there to say to them? "Hi boys please don't do it again"

 

Brian you also said "I will go so far as to say that in my area all of the pleasure anglers want to catch as much as they can every time they go out and fill their fish boxs every time."

 

Then you need to get out and try other areas. The majority of the local and visiting anglers return all fish except bait around here. They fish for pleasure and not the pot. The magazine Sea Angler runs catch and release programmes. The anglers that insist on taking large ammounts home are basically dinosaurs and will go the same way as their predecessors did

 

 

In a real world, it would be nice to sit round a table and negotiate but i feel there is as much chance of getting Orca to negotiate with seals.

www.ssacn.org

 

www.tagsharks.com

 

www.onyermarks.co.uk

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Ken Davison South Wales:

Nothing is impossible to achieve if the will is there to do it, both us and the commercials would like to see a twelve mile exclusive zone.

Throughout the EU, only a nation's own boats can fish within 6 miles.

 

Between 6 and 12 miles, only those foreign boats that have established 'historic' fishing rights can fish in another nation's zone (ie they were fishing there for those species before the CFP came about).

 

To remove those historic rights isn't going to be easy, particularly as those rules apply throughout the EU countries.

 

What I'm unsure of is how many British boats have historic rights to fish the 6 - 12 mile zone of other EU nations, and whether they would give up these rights if it meant denying other nations' historic rights to fish ours.

 

Anyone know?

 

Tight Lines - leon

 

[ 29. September 2005, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: Leon Roskilly ]

RNLI Shoreline Member

Member of the Angling Trust

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I don't think the black market issue is wide spread amongst commercials. The operation would have to be large enough to justify the risk of getting caught.

 

The problem in Scotland highlights the risk and I believe there are a number of other cases involving smaller coencerns else where in the UK.

 

The biggest blackmarket involves those with nothing to lose and everything to gain, the dodgey part-timers.

 

They are working within the law until they are caught selling their catch.

 

With the commercials the biggest problem is by-catch.

 

Where you go with that one is very hard to say, but once again it would appear to lie at the doorstep of quotas again.

 

The whole thing is very complexed and the more you delve into it the worse it becomes.

 

It is issues like this where joint pressure would have a chance of working and putting pressure on the twelve mile zone would resolve a lot of issues for both sides of the table.

 

Policing it would be very easy compared to the current situation.

 

It is a big mountain to climb but far harder things have been achieved with far less man power.

 

Yes I am positive, I dislike negative vibes, they belong to losers and we want to be winners.

 

[ 29. September 2005, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: Ken Davison South Wales ]

I fish, I catches a few, I lose a few, BUT I enjoys. Anglers Trust PM

 

eat.gif

 

http://www.petalsgardencenter.com

 

Petals Florist

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quote:


Originally posted by stavey:

Hi old man of the sea, what would be the right aproach? and how do you like the way the thread is being received so far? [/QB]


Hello, Stavey.

Good response so far! If I was comparing this thread to a fishing trip, it would go down in my daybook as a great start with good quality fish. I noticed Newt got rid of the discards straight away, returning them intact to fight another day.

 

May I say I like the attitudes of a lot of the posters with a positive (or even just an open-minded) approach. Of course, this thread must also have negative views on it. If we all go around patting each other on the back, nothing will be achieved.

 

You ask what I think is the right approach? I’m not altogether sure. The debate might inspire some good ideas.

 

One possibility: I believe you have a National Federation of Sea Anglers. If someone from that organisation made a provisional approach to someone from a commercial fishing organisation (possibly the NFFO?), that might be a start. But as I’ve said before, if they go in with guns blazing, they’ll get shot back at. At first contact, I think we need to tread as carefully as we would if we were dealing with aliens from another planet. There are similarities!

 

Back to the thread: I would like to see everyone who is a member put forward their views on this subject. So, come on people, negative or positive, let’s be knowing about it. I do not believe this is a subject for abstention. But please, let’s try to keep it constructive.

 

Over to you all.

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